For Americans Considering a Move Outside the US: Guidance to Become an Expatriate from America | Move to Europe with Brett Andrews

Moving abroad isn’t exclusive to retirees and 25-year-olds; many Americans from all walks of life are considering leaving the United States. Richer culture, affordable healthcare, and a higher quality of life are among the key reasons Americans are moving to Europe. In the current climate, expats need to choose a country that suits their lifestyle and financial goals.

In this episode of We’re The Brits In America, Richard Taylor – dual UK/US citizen and Chartered Financial Planner – decodes the migration process with Brett Andrews – Co-founder of Expatsi. Acquiring European residency can be confusing, but some countries offer multiple pathways, including student, digital nomad, and retirement visas. Many of these options depend on the applicant’s financial stability, raising an important question: how are American expats preparing and positioning themselves for their big move?

Richard and Brett unpack:

The lifestyle differences between the US and Europe.

The requirements and benefits of various visa pathways.

Solutions to the most common barriers Americans face when relocating.

How to navigate the emotional and logistical challenges of moving abroad.

 

More about We’re The Brits In America:

With the right financial advice, landmines that threaten expat wealth can be avoided. Often encountered by U.S.-connected expats, these financial landmines are more numerous, more hazardous, and less understood than almost anywhere else in the world. As a result, non-cross border professionals, wealth advisors, and even international advisors are often unaware of them. But don’t worry, We’re The Brits In America has you covered.

We’re The Brits In America is dedicated to helping ambitious U.S.-connected expats and immigrants navigate those challenges — and thrive. Whether you’ve moved to the U.S. for opportunity, or are an American seeking adventure and growth abroad, our job is to equip you with the tools and insights you need to succeed.

If you’re enjoying the show, please consider leaving a 5 star rating and review to help the mission, which is to help expats and immigrants thrive in America. Visit planfirstwealth.com to learn more about our services and connect with Richard Taylor on LinkedIn.

We’re the Brits in America is affiliated with Plan First Wealth LLC, an SEC-registered investment advisor. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Plan First Wealth.

Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial adviser and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Plan First Wealth does not provide any tax and/or legal advice and strongly recommends that listeners seek their own advice in these areas.

About Richard

Richard Taylor is a British expat, dual citizen (UK & US). Originally from Bolton, he now lives in Greenwich, CT, where Plan First Wealth has its head office.

As the firm’s leader, Richard launched Taylor & Taylor, now Plan First Wealth, and continues to fuel the firm’s growth. Richard is a Chartered Financial Planner (UK – CII) in addition to holding the IMC (CFA UK) and Series 65 (US – FINRA).

Connect with Richard on LinkedIn

TRANSCRIPT:

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:01:11 – 00:02:08]
Welcome to our Ask an expert show where I invite a fellow professional in the US Expat Cross Border Space to come in and talk to me about the issues we think Americans who are considering moving to Europe need to be aware of if they are going to thrive there. But my guest today is Brett Andrews. Brett is an expat influencer and co founder along with his partner Jen of Expatsi, a company that’s helped thousands of expats on their moving abroad journeys. Their website is a treasure trove of information and resources for Americans considering moving overseas. I have never seen anything like it. Seriously, it is incredible. Resources include the Expatsi test to recommend countries to move to based on factors like budget, visa type, spoken languages, healthcare rankings and more. And we’re gonna talk about all these things as they pertain to the various European countries with a particular focus on how you get there in the first place, I. E. Visas. So without further ado, let’s get into this. Hi Brett. Welcome to Move to Europe.

Brett Andrews:
[00:02:08 – 00:02:11]
Good afternoon, Richard. Thank you so much for having me, Brett.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:02:11 – 00:02:15]
So that was my intro. Will you just tell people who you are and what you guys do at Expatsi, please?

Brett Andrews:
[00:02:15 – 00:02:59]
Sure. So I am Brett. I am the co founder of Expatsi. Expatsi was founded three years ago. In 2022 other Americans figure out where they should move to abroad. As Richard mentioned, it is driven largely by the Expatsi test which is based on our publicly sourced data to help you figure out where you should move to based on things like social demographics, climate issues, certain legalities such as gun control or gay rights. Other things such as religion, languages spoken, and so on. We’ve had over 200,000 people take the Expatsi test in our first three years in business, and we’ve helped hundreds of families so far move abroad across the world. Our goal is to help 1 million Americans move out of the US and into a better country for them.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:03:00 – 00:04:30]
1 million. That’s a big number. But I’ll tell you what, I can’t believe you’re only three years old. I. You’ve come out of nowhere. You’ve come out of nowhere and what you’ve built in three years. Seriously, Anyone listening? If you haven’t been to the Expatsi website, go there now, take a look around. You will. You’ll see what I mean. I’ve. I’ve lived in two different countries in two different continents. I’ve looked around, I’ve shopped around. I have never seen the amount of information that available in one spot that you guys put together in three years. In three years. It’s remarkable. And now is the time, right? There is a. There is an appetite for it. This trend, this. Americans considering life overseas. This is just. This is. This is growing and growing. And the reason I’m doing this podcast is because. So I’m an expat in America and I work with fellow expats in America, and I think there’s a tremendous opportunity for people to come to America and change their lives financially. Live it or hate it, America is a land of opportunity. There’s something in the water here. You guys just create opportunity. You work incredibly hard. That might be part of it, and it’s quite stressful, but with a corresponding amount of opportunity. That’s good stress in a way. However, what I notice is that there’s an opportunity for a certain sort of American who has maybe already spent 20 or 30 years working really hard, done really well, and there’s an opportunity for them to spend the last 10 years of their working life in a different gear. With that in mind, how do you see Americans moving to Europe? What’s the. What are the most popular destinations, what do people need to be thinking of, etc.

Brett Andrews:
[00:04:30 – 00:06:46]
So a lot of times, people looking to move to Europe from the US are going on one of two paths. The first path, of course, is they’re looking for someplace to retire. They could be retiring at 65 or 67. Some people looking at early retirement or looking at no longer working due to things like a disability, or they just have enough capital saved away that they don’t need to go and work day to day a 9 to 5. So a lot of people are looking to move abroad for that purpose. The other side of people looking to move abroad tend to be skilled workers. They’re finally looking at job markets outside of the us they’re looking at opportunities in places like Portugal and Spain and France and Italy and Germany. And they’re looking for a new life, mainly for their children. It could be that they are looking for a better work life balance. America is the land of opportunity. And America is the land of opportunity, largely because so many immigrants have come to the US over the course of its lifetime. Immigrants are the, they are the lifeblood of the US culture. And many of them are looking to find, sometimes return to a culture of their ancestors, or looking simply to find a different culture that maybe embraces things like family values more so moving to some place like Spain where instead of parent going away at 8 o’ clock in the morning to work, coming home at 6, instead there’s a two hour siesta every day. And so there’s more of a focus on the family experience or going to someplace like Germany where you have up to two years of parental leave when you have a child. The US doesn’t allow for things like parental leave up to two years. Yes, the first year can be paid at least the majority of your salary. The second year, I believe can be unpaid. But yes, your job can be on hold for up to two years. Whereas the US there is no such thing as parental leave, maternal leave. If there is, it might be two, three, maybe four weeks if you’re lucky, if you have a good company. And so that’s what a lot of these employed people are looking for is they’re looking for better work, life balance. They’re looking to, to spend more time with their families. They’re looking to invest more, take advantage of the experiences of traveling the world, of traveling through Europe, a very large, very interconnected continent.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:06:46 – 00:07:28]
That’s possibly the thing I miss the most as a Brit. You just take it, you take it for granted that you’re an hour from Paris, three hours from Rome. You know, you just totally take that for granted. And then when I moved away, you realize just how unbelievably blessed we were to have that on our doorstep, that richness of culture. You surprised me though, with something you’ve just said, though I assumed. I call them the big four. Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, they’re the main ones I see Americans going to, especially Portugal right now, and I assumed that was mainly those who were at or near retirement. And if anyone who was going for for work was going to mostly the uk, maybe also Germany, if they spoke German. But you’re saying there’s, there’s work opportunities in the Big four countries as well.

Brett Andrews:
[00:07:28 – 00:09:16]
There’s some more carpet than the Big four and different countries have different demands. So for example, Spain as of last year launched a hiring initiative to bring in more audio visual experts to come and work at burgeoning video development department. They’re looking at things like opening game studios, film production, television production. They’re looking to hire more people with those types of professional backgrounds from the US and from other countries. And so that’s been a big draw there. I can tell you also that a lot of the blue collar industries are very heavily in demand in the Big four and in other parts of Europe, such as people involved in construction most of all. So you think electricians, carpentry, painters, industries like that tend to be very heavily demand along with other things like long distance. Truck drivers are very much in need around central Europe. So there’s a number of different paths to get there as far as a skilled worker, but there’s no clear overarching mandate for any particular field, for any particular population. And so that’s where the challenge comes in, is finding which of the countries you fit into. But yes, the Big four are certainly in demand, especially for things like retirement. Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, very popular retirement destinations. France, very popular for working artists in particular. So painters, dancers, musicians. France even has a visa for that. So if you’re someone of the more creative type and you feel like you are as much for a professional to make a living at it, that could be a potential path abroad for someone like that.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:09:16 – 00:09:47]
So let’s say I’m a 55 year old, I’m at this kind of point in my career where my kids are off at college, I can just carry on grinding out another 10 years in whatever city or town I’m in. Or I’m intrigued by this notion of maybe relocating to Europe and spending, you know, maybe permanently, maybe temporarily, who knows? When you start chatting to people, do you find they’ve normally got the mind made up on a certain destination? Like I want to live in Portugal or I want to live in Spain, or is it more like, yeah, I’ve been to Europe, I like it all, I’ve got an open mind. It depends what fits my, my criteria.

Brett Andrews:
[00:09:47 – 00:12:51]
The challenge with coming from the U.S. and look to move abroad is people from the U.S. we’re fairly limited in our experiences. The U.S. is a very, very big place. So generally, if we’re going to move, we’re going to move somewhere else within the US Some places probably very much like the place we just left. I can move from, say, Alabama to California. The cost of living might be different, but the same companies still apply, the same laws still apply, the same languages still apply. And so it’s different for going to someplace like Europe because suddenly there’s cultural differences, there’s language differences, and that can be overwhelming to a lot of people, that can be intimidating to a lot of people, and they don’t really know where they might fit in. And the second part of that is people from the US tend to be monolingual. English is the predominant language in the us there’s some would say Spanish is on the rise, but people in Europe tend to speak multiple languages. So if you go to, say, Portugal, you’re more likely to run to someone that speaks Portuguese and English versus someone that only speaks one or the other. Same thing with Spain. You’re more likely to see me run to someone who speaks Spanish and Catalan than they are that just speaks the single language that was the predominant language in the place that they were born. And so there are challenges there. And what happens is when we talk to people in expats and people come to us, they’re looking for direction. They don’t know exactly where they want to go because they don’t know where they can find things that they’re looking for. They tend to be looking for the same things too. They tend to be looking for, I want decent health care. I want a place that’s safe. I want decent infrastructure. I want a place where I can raise my children and they can get a good education. I want a place where my rights are not in danger. I want a place where gun violence is not the measure of the day. That could potentially happen any given day of the year and probably will. In my country, people tend to be looking for all those things, but they don’t really know how to get there because generally at the end of the day, they don’t know where they might fit in. And that’s where expansi comes in to help them sort of decipher what their needs are and then be able to make recommendations based on those needs. To say, here’s where you would fit in. For example, you’re looking for a lower cost of living and you want to be somewhat close to us, say within six hours of the U.S. border. In that case, Portugal or Spain would be very high quality options for you. Portugal’s got lower cost of living. It’s got a lot of the same amenities the US does, but also has better healthcare. It’s got great public transportation. Transportation. It’s a long, long lasting, vibrant culture in which Americans could invest themselves. And so there’s much to grow from without sacrificing everything that is familiar about the US without sacrificing that easier access to go back home, so to speak, and return to those familiar places if living abroad does not feel like the right option for them after the fact.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:12:52 – 00:13:48]
I think about my situation, right? So I got married in Italy. Love Italy, adore Italy. But also my kids in a French school, I’m learning French. I love Portugal and Spain because how can you not love Portugal and Spain? So if I, I think to myself, I’ve always got this like dream at the back of my head, like, oh, one day Italy maybe. But then also I. I’ve done the expertsy test and that told me France. If I knew nothing else, I’d tell you Italy. But if I then had some sort of weighing machine, which I do, because I’ve done the test and we’ve had conversations that would absolutely sway my. I would happily go somewhere else if it ticked more boxes. Once I did a bit of the research, but I suspect there’s a lot of people why I’ve done this podcast. There’s a lot of people with this pipe dream. They’ve been to Italy many times or France many times. They love it and they, when they’re there, they talk with their wife or the spouse about we’ll move here one day. Not really thinking they will. I just think there’s the. The appetite to do this is growing and more people are going to do it. It’s really exciting. It’s really exciting.

Brett Andrews:
[00:13:49 – 00:15:20]
I think it has something to do at least with the rise of social media in the last 20 years, especially with things like TikTok. We are more exposed to cultures outside of our own. And the more we are exposed to those outside cultures, the more that we can see that other people are more like us than they are unlike us. In fact, it was because of TikTok that Jen and I came to Merida, Yucatan, Mexico in the first place. It’s because we saw these two guys who moved down here from Los Angeles, California and they lived here for several months at that time. They moved down during the height of COVID because they were both kind of out of work in LA and just wanted different pace of life and they just absolutely loved it. And because of them we said, why don’t we try Mexico? It had never occurred to either one of us to look at Mexico as an option. So let’s try that. And sure enough, we did. We took that scouting trip. We found that, yes, we felt like we fit in here. And a lot of times people do have that similar experience with, with going to France or going to Italy. They visit on a vacation. They think that I feel very much at home here. I feel like I could adapt this culture. I feel like I could embrace this culture, embrace these traditions and strive to live like a local. I believe that there’s a lot of value in that. And generally, I think that’s what people are looking for, is they’re looking to integrate themselves into that new culture, whichever one makes sense. They just don’t have the exposure to that someone like yourself being from Europe, might have had in the past. Because Europe is very far from the US and the US is a very big place in and of itself.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:15:20 – 00:15:21]
And there’s a language thing.

Brett Andrews:
[00:15:21 – 00:15:22]
Absolutely.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:15:22 – 00:15:22]
As well.

Brett Andrews:
[00:15:22 – 00:15:24]
And there’s a language thing happening. Right.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:15:24 – 00:15:41]
Why is Portugal having such a moment? Of the big four countries, Portugal, I probably think is the least well known. I suspect when Americans think of Europe and are living there, they think France and. France and Italy first of all. And yet it just seems like there’s just some one way traffic right now to Portugal.

Brett Andrews:
[00:15:41 – 00:16:58]
Yeah. So Portugal’s going to be getting a fair amount of attention since about 2007. So what happened in 2007 is we had the global banking crisis. Portugal was particularly heavily hit. Their central banking system nearly went under, had a lot of debt at the time. And so what Portugal did is they started an outreach program. They started what was called a Golden Visa. And what the Golden Visa did was it invited foreigners to come in and invest in the country. Invest, say €250,000 into buying a property. So if you spent a quarter of a million euros in Portugal to buy a property for the next 16 years, you could get easy residency into Portugal, this lovely country that was a bit underrepresented because in order to get to Portugal, you got to go through Spain, you got to go through France. Very well known, very stunning countries. And so Portugal started building on that. With the Golden Visa inviting into investors, people started to take a look at it. They were looking for those new opportunities in the early 2010s. And so they started looking at Portugal and talking about it. And of course, Portugal has a vibrant immigrant population. Outside of the west, there’s only about 10 to 11,000Americans living in a country of at least 11 million people. So there’s not many of us there.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:16:59 – 00:17:00]
There’s only 10 or 11,000.

Brett Andrews:
[00:17:00 – 00:17:06]
Oh, yes, right. And five years or so ago, it was only, I believe, 5,000, maybe even less.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:17:06 – 00:17:06]
Oh, my goodness.

Brett Andrews:
[00:17:07 – 00:19:08]
So that’s what we mean. We say there’s been a big run on Americans going to Portugal. It’s not that big. There’s about three times more people from Nepal than there is from the US So people. So that’s another thing is it’s easy in the media to say that, oh, Americans are taking over. They’re gentrifying this place, they’re gentrifying that place. They’re buying people out, or they’re pricing, you know, locals out of the markets. It’s easy to point at Portugal because Portugal had those financial issues in the 2000s, and they don’t so much anymore. It’s easy to say that. But the reality is you’re not. You’re. One apartment that you’re going to go and buy in Portugal is not going to collapse. The local real estate market, Your US dollar, your Social Security pension is not going to ruin the Portuguese economy for locals. They can get by just fine with or without any one of us. But because it’s getting that attention, more people are looking at Portugal, and they are seeing that it is a vibrant place that has so much to offer in terms of its vibrant cultures. It was colonized by the Moors, I believe, about a thousand years ago. It’s been there many times longer than the United States could even dream of existing. And it’s also. It’s a very peaceful place. People are more concerned with the community and walking around than getting in a car and driving to a job or driving to anywhere and everywhere you might have to go in a day. And a lot of people are really enjoying that, in addition to a lower cost of living. So it’s really easy for access for people like us retirees who do have that Social Security. And they are looking for new options that don’t really fit in with the US Model, which is starting to price people out of the market. And they want someplace where they can just have their pension and live their lives.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:19:09 – 00:19:40]
Look, let’s be clear. It is a totally different approach to life. And the US Is kind of incredible. In its own way. I am in awe of it. It’s got real downsides. And the European model, which also has its downsides, there’s a reason things are kind of flipping on its head a little bit right now, but there’s a reason why the US is outpaced it for so long, but they have a totally different approach to life. And if you’re, if you’re a stage in your life where you benefit from that, it’s really quite something to behold, you know, and it’s a complete change of gear.

Brett Andrews:
[00:19:41 – 00:20:11]
Yeah, it is. And we talk up Europe a lot and a lot of our audience comes to us asking about how do I move to certain countries in Europe? Because Europe has just different benefits than the US US is great. US is also very capitalistic. So capital drives everything you do in the us Whereas abroad, in places like Western Europe and France, Italy and Spain, you can live your life without being driven to spend your last dime to so much as leave your house.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:20:11 – 00:20:18]
They’re more concerned with what wine are you going to have with lunch. And I, you know, I can get behind that.

Brett Andrews:
[00:20:18 – 00:21:23]
Yes, we, we, we have led multiple scouting trips to Portugal and Spain. That was our biggest concern too is we get to have wine at lunch. And after a couple of days you say, what wine am I going to have with lunch today on my two hour lunch break and just enjoy, enjoy my life. And that’s one thing that really people are liking about looking at Europe and moving to Europe is that there’s more opportunities to just enjoy your life. You’re not driven to the edge of being able to support yourself, just to make another dollar for someone else. You’re encouraged to live your life, to experience the parks, to go for a walk, to take a train out of the country, for the weekend, to go and do any number of things your heart might possibly desire. And more and more Americans are waking up that as an actual possibility that is not just reserved for the wealthy, for the independently financed, it’s actually available for people like ordinary retirees and ordinary working families as well.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:21:23 – 00:22:16]
Walkable towns and cities as well. Once you’ve lived in a walkable town or city, you’ll never go back again. I didn’t appreciate Europe full. I mean, I loved Europe. I didn’t fully appreciate it, took it for granted and then I left. Another thing I took for granted was walkable towns and cities. Because I grew up in the UK and Europe, just assume the whole world had walkable towns and cities. And now I live somewhere where you can’t get anywhere without a car. And boy, do you appreciate just how wonderful walkable towns and cities are. So it’s just little things like that. And then the history, you know, US has got some fantastic history, wonderful, wonderful history, but it’s all recent history. Yes. And Europe has literally thousands of years of history all around you. There’s a fantastic phrase. America is a business, Japan is a nursing home. Europe is a museum. And some people will thoroughly enjoy living in a living museum and be one of them. There’s real benefits to that, being surrounded by that history and culture.

Brett Andrews:
[00:22:16 – 00:22:44]
Agreed. We visited our first skating trip we led in March of last year. We visited a little town outside of Porto called Guimares. Guimarus was founded in the Middle Ages and is still has many of its buildings from the Middle Ages, still used as housing and commercial offices and little shops. And so to walk into a building, walk into a room that’s been in place since the 11th, 12th, 13th centuries.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:22:44 – 00:22:45]
It’S so cool, isn’t it?

Brett Andrews:
[00:22:45 – 00:22:55]
It’s such an amazing experience to live in that museum. To live in that museum and come all that way from the American business, as you call it.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:22:55 – 00:24:05]
Brett, I really think you’re either someone who gets that or doesn’t like there are people who presumably don’t listen to this podcast, but who just do not feel anything and that’s fine. But there are other people. I’m one of them. Clearly you’re one of them. You walk in to a thousand year old building and you just almost overcome with like making up stories of what could have gone down in this room. And it’s almost romantic. I think you either get that or you don’t. And if you’re that way inclined, I’m urging people to feed that desire in you and go and experience it firsthand. So I think one of the things that stops people is they don’t know how to get there. Right. So people are aware. I think people are aware because it’s, it’s having a huge uptick. People are aware of citizenship via descendancy citizenship. So, you know, if your grandparents or, or whatever were Irish or whatever, maybe you can apply for a passport and get into Europe that way. Assuming that’s not something that you qualify for and you don’t have millions of dollars to invest in a business, or you don’t want to invest millions of dollars in a business or something. How do I, an American, a successful American looking to go to Europe anywhere, How do I get there?

Brett Andrews:
[00:24:05 – 00:25:04]
Well, there’s still a few paths available. Let’s go with the note you made. Let’s take out investors and let’s take out skilled workers. Skilled workers. Simply being I have a job offer abroad. Let’s look at the other three paths that we find are most common when moving abroad. First of all, Is student. Student is the most common and easiest to access path abroad. Every country you can possibly think of offers a student visa because every country wants to have more foreigners, more immigrants, emotionally and personally invest in the country. And the countries offer university programs of all stripes, many of which many, in fact, many European countries offer university programs in English and we have a partner that helps with that. But student visa is the, the easiest path abroad. Now many people say, well, I’m, I’m 30, I’m 45. Will any school possibly take me? Yes.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:25:05 – 00:25:07]
Oh, really? Is it still an option if I’m 50?

Brett Andrews:
[00:25:08 – 00:25:35]
It’s still an option if you’re 50. In fact, we talk about being one of the common paths abroad to the UK and certainly our most common paths in Germany, the uk, of course, because you have the town of Oxford, you have so many rich university institutions, and also you look at options such as Germany, where Germany offers free tuition, free university tuition to anyone, to everyone, regardless of where you came from.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:25:36 – 00:25:56]
I’ve just got to jump in here. So you’re telling me if I’m 55, I’ve always dreamed of doing a classics degree, you know, not speaking personally here at all, but of course I’ve always dreamed of doing a classics degree, that I could go and live in Germany and do it on a student visa and yes, maybe even get free education as well. At the same time, you can, you.

Brett Andrews:
[00:25:56 – 00:26:45]
Could get free tuition. Yes, you have to pay for things like room and board, you have to have health insurance, of course. But yes, you can have free tuition in Germany As a 55 year old, it is available to all. And I told my father this once last year and he asked me, why would Germany do this? He says, because I told him, because there’s value in having an educated population, there’s value in investing in your global community, there’s value in investing in the countries around you because a rising tide raises all ships. I said, I love Germany for that. I love Europe for that. In fact, the other thing I tell people is even if Germany is not your place, France, Portugal, Italy, Spain, our big four that we’re talking about, all of them have lower tuition costs than the US by far.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:26:45 – 00:26:46]
Substantially.

Brett Andrews:
[00:26:46 – 00:26:47]
Substantially, Substantially.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:26:48 – 00:26:49]
It’s not even close.

Brett Andrews:
[00:26:49 – 00:27:05]
So the idea of going to school for a four year degree in the US and paying it off the next 20 to 30 years intimidates you. Looking abroad at a university degree on a student visa in Europe could certainly be in your best interest.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:27:05 – 00:27:19]
It’s a weakness of the student visa. I’m just guessing here I’m presuming anyone who wants to move abroad probably wants to go on a visa and then if they want to stay, have the option to make it permanent and then maybe even a route citizenship. Just guessing, do student visas offer that or do they, do they not?

Brett Andrews:
[00:27:19 – 00:28:55]
There are some options. I don’t think there’s really a clear cut path. But I will say this. If you are someone who is looking to move to, say, Spain and you want to live in Spain, you’re getting your university degree in Spain. It would be in your best interest to network heavily during your university time. Because if you think about it, if you’re going, say, on a four year degree program in Spain, that means you have four years to invest in people around you to develop those relationships, to work on your networking skills in your broader community, including within your new chosen industry. It sets you up much more effectively to find local employment, to get that job, sponsorship, to connect with employers that could offer you that opportunity that allows you to stay. Now, of course, whenever you complete your degree program, you don’t immediately have to come back to the US or anything like that. You do have some grace period of a few months at least. But getting that student visa can be your path to staying abroad indefinitely because of your ability to network, because your ability to be around locals, because your ability to embrace local culture and start to understand the local customs in ways that people who simply want to move directly from the US cannot compete with, because they only know the US way, they only know the English way, the American way. And so investing in that student visa, investing your time and socializing with others and networking with others could be your path to getting a full time career abroad as a skilled worker. It could happen.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:28:55 – 00:28:57]
Okay, so that’s a student visa.

Brett Andrews:
[00:28:57 – 00:30:06]
That’s student visa. Second option we’ve been talking to people about a lot in the last three years is the digital nomad. The digital Nomad visa was developed again as a response to Covid. The first one was made in Estonia in 2020. And what that does is allows foreigners to come into a country for anywhere from 90 days, all the way up to potentially five years and work remotely. So if you can work from just your laptop and your smartphone and a WI FI connection, you could potentially be a digital nomad and choose that as your path move abroad. Now, of course, not every country has a digital nomad visa. According to our calculations of roughly 50 countries in the world have it right now, we’ll say about a third of Europe has a digital nomad option where you can come and work remotely in that country. Spain’s digital nomad is one that we talk about very often. In order to use Spain’s digital nomad visa, you have to be a 1099 contractor employee. Portugal’s is also a big hit. Portugal have to show about 2,500 US in remote working income.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:30:06 – 00:30:08]
You do have to be genuinely self employed, right?

Brett Andrews:
[00:30:08 – 00:32:04]
Isn’t it? Generally being self employed is the only easiest option. Finding truly fully remote working options is very challenging. The simple reason for that is whenever you move out of the US and your company is based in the us, once you’re gone at least half the year, your company now has to abide by your new country’s employment laws. So that might mean things such as the pay for your government sponsored health care. It could be that suddenly, oh, we owe you nine months of paid leave because you’re having a child. Or it could be we owe you six weeks of paid time off every year because you’re living and working in western these horrid things that the US corporations just cannot abide by. They suddenly would have to. If you move abroad as a digital nomad, of course there are ways around it, such as being self employed. Starting your own business is a very common path abroad to places like Portugal and especially some place like Netherlands which has called the Daft visa to allow that. And so that’s where we find a lot of digital nomads fall into play, is they come into industries such as their consultants. One of our clients and partners is a licensed therapist out of Texas. She’s an art therapist and so she conducts her art therapy internationally. She’s conducted it from Portugal, from Spain, from Mexico, for weeks at a time because she can do it herself and she can work remotely based on her own industry and doesn’t have to ask permission from an employer. And so that’s generally a very helpful option for the more go getter minded who are looking to think more outside the box than simply, I must find an employer to sponsor my job visa and offer me a job and have my residency connected to that. And so if you’re more unfairly minded, digital nomad visa could be an option for you.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:32:04 – 00:32:12]
Are there low barriers to entry? Do you have to just, I mean, you have to have a certain amount of capital. Did you have to demonstrate a certain amount of income generally? Are they quite large?

Brett Andrews:
[00:32:12 – 00:32:40]
Generally you have to show a certain amount of income. Now of course, the income varies wildly depending on which countries you’re looking at. So some countries like say Albania. Albania doesn’t have a particular number attached to it. They just want to see, do you have enough money to support yourself? It’s kind of a nebulous question. Whereas other countries, such as Portugal, like I mentioned, Portugal wants to see you have at least $2,500 in monthly remote working income.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:32:41 – 00:32:44]
$2,500 goes a lot further in Portugal. It does in the UK as well, folks.

Brett Andrews:
[00:32:44 – 00:33:21]
It goes much further. It goes much further. But those requirements vary from country to country. It’s one of the things we have available. At expatsi.com, we have an article listed under our resources tab under jobs. You can check our list of digital nomad visas. You can see the income requirements, you can see how long they are available. Most often digital nomad visas can be renewed. So if you came in on a visa, say it’s good for six months, you can generally renew that visa at least once, if not twice, up to spans of a year, two years, some you can renew up to five years. At which point you could be looking at permanent residency in many of the countries that we’re talking about.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:33:21 – 00:33:22]
Oh, you can convert them.

Brett Andrews:
[00:33:23 – 00:33:42]
You can convert. In some cases, not all. In some cases you can. In some cases you can’t. Same as like a student visa, for example. Student visa can’t convert to residency somewhere else on its own. But in some cases a digital nomad visa can start working towards that, that stay requirement for residency.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:33:42 – 00:33:44]
All right, so that’s digital nomad.

Brett Andrews:
[00:33:44 – 00:35:10]
The third option we have, outside of finding a company that will hire you and outside of having six to seven figures worth of capital to invest in a company, is we have retirees. Retirement visas are even more common than digital nomad visas. We track 100 countries with Expasi. Roughly two thirds of them offer retirement visas to some degree. Retirement visas, they’re often a question for people that are working. They say that why would Spain walt me just come and retire? There’s. I say it’s very simple because countries either want your money or your labor. Some countries, such as Portugal, are more interested in your money than they are your labor. The cost of living in Portugal is rather low compared to the U.S. and so, for example, the cost of a D7 retirement visa in Portugal, or it’s called a non lucrative visa, seems to show about €920 per month in passive retirement income, less than $1,000 US and passive retirement income to qualify. Now it’s tough to live in Portugal on a thousand dollars a month, but as Richard said a moment ago, $2,500 a month goes a long way in Portugal and many, many parts of it. Same thing with Spain. Spain offers a retirement visa. France offers retirement visas, Italy offers retirement visas.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:35:10 – 00:35:12]
Can you do any work on a retirement visa?

Brett Andrews:
[00:35:12 – 00:35:26]
In some cases you can. So Portugal, for example. Portugal says yes, your income needs to be passive, needs to be retired based. But if you want to work a little bit here and there, fine, go ahead. Spain on the other hand, says absolutely not.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:35:27 – 00:35:27]
Oh really?

Brett Andrews:
[00:35:28 – 00:35:31]
Cannot work in Spain with your, with your retirement visa at all.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:35:32 – 00:35:51]
So let’s say I’m 55, I want to change gear, but I don’t want to retire, I don’t want to quit entirely. Maybe I want to leave corporate life, become a consultant, do some part time consultancy. Depending on where you’re looking at, maybe retirement visa is an option, maybe it’s not, maybe it’s digital nomad and seeing where that takes you, but it really is country specific.

Brett Andrews:
[00:35:51 – 00:37:57]
Retirement visas. Yes, every country that has retirement visa, they all have their own income requirements, they all have their own things to say. And again, sometimes the income requirements might be like I said with Albania, you might show sufficient income to support yourself, or you must be able to show this much monthly income as well as make sure you have your health insurance paid for every month. Because health care in many, many, many European countries is considered a constitutional right, a human right that everyone must have, such as Germany and Spain have that law. And so the requirements from place to place will vary somewhat. But generally, if you’re retired in a U.S. a place with very, very high comparative cost of living compared to especially most of Europe, you can find a comparable country in Europe where you can retire and live not extravagantly, but certainly feel less on the edge financially than you might live living say on Social Security month to month in the US at a higher cost of living place such as, say Colorado. And so it gives you those options. And again, these countries, they want your money because what retirees do? I tell people this every week. What retirees do is you bring 30 to 40 years of your accumulated wealth, your accumulated capital, your savings, your pension, you bring it all to this country and you take nothing. You take a home, you don’t take political power, you do not take a vote, you do not take anything from them. Sometimes you don’t even take from their healthcare program, their public healthcare programs. Sometimes you have to have private healthcare insurance which also invests your money into that local country, into their economy and their systems, which also, FYI, is a.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:37:57 – 00:38:01]
Fraction of the price of health insurance in the U.S. yes.

Brett Andrews:
[00:38:01 – 00:38:36]
That’s another thing about the U.S. i want to make this abundantly clear. The U.S. charges more for your health care than any other country in the entire world, anywhere, everywhere, pays less for health care than you do. It’s a very clear sticking point for me, Richard, that I tell that every time I get the opportunity. You are being robbed under calls for your health care and you’re being cheated on the quality of it. Every other country pays less. Most countries, especially in Europe that we’re talking about, have much better health care outcomes than the US does. And your doctors will speak English.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:38:37 – 00:39:32]
Yeah, it’s just a major issue. Look, who isn’t, who isn’t scared of something happening in retirement, that people are terrified of medical debt, rightly so this is one way to alleviate that concern, I guess. When it comes to visas, the point I want to get across here is there are loads of options. And if you are sat in America thinking, I’d like to do this one day, but you know, I’ll, you’ll need too much money or there’s no way for me to get a visa, almost certainly, if there’s a real will, there’s a way to do it. Whether it’s retirement visa and never working again, or whether it’s some sort of digital nomad. And because you do want to do some work, there is a way in for you. And if you’re really serious about it, I’ll tell you where to go. Go to Expatsi website and start checking things out there, because that is, that is the place to start, really. But it’s doable.

Brett Andrews:
[00:39:32 – 00:40:00]
And this, it is doable. I tell people the first step on your journey is to take the expansy test. Take the expansy test because it will take in the factors that are important to you in terms of social demographics, languages spoken, topography, and so many other factors. It takes those things into consideration and tells you the 10 best countries that work for you. That’s the place to start. From there, we help you map out your path abroad, all the way up to settling into your new country.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:40:01 – 00:40:43]
I just want to give people an idea here. The wealth information here. So there’s an expat C test, which is great, but then there’s all sorts of resources about visas and stuff, which is also great. But then under each country you’ve got curated people who are living there already. So there’s, there’s Instagram pages you can go and follow. There’s people who have expatriated from America who you can liaise with and talk to. There’s financial people, there’s tax people, there’s visa people. There is everything. The. There is the. The kind of, like the soft knowledge base, and then there’s the. The kind of more technical, legal taxation stuff. It’s all in one place. Yeah, people should go and check that out and start mapping out their journey from there, really.

Brett Andrews:
[00:40:43 – 00:43:14]
There’s three main resources on the expatsi site. First of which is the country guides like Richard is talking about. We have 67 country guides published on our site from every continent. And what we do is, like Richard says, we go in there, we write blogs about these countries. So best places to retire to under $2,000 a month countries in Europe are in that article we go through. We also find resources for you custom to that country. So if you’re looking to move to, say, Slovenia, we’ve already looked at Slovenia for you. We found the subreddits, we found YouTube creators that live in Slovenia. We have found Facebook groups for expats in slovenia. We found TikTok creators living in Slovenia talking about their life. We found blogs, we found examples. No other resources from sources like Travel Noir for black American, sources like out in the World for the LGBTQ population. We’ve researched these places. You’ve got Instagram users documenting their lives in Slovenia. We’ve got them for most of the European countries, probably. If you’re thinking about moving there, could you move there? We’ve already got a country guide made for it. So the second resource we have is the Experts page. We have a thing called the Expatsi Network, which Richard and I were talking about last time we spoke. And we are gathering expats who are moving to these countries and putting them together in one place. So if you’re really thinking about moving to, say, Ireland, you want to know what’s life like in Ireland? Is it as magical as I think? Are the Emerald Isles really so green? And you can write to our expat consultant. You can speak with him. His name is Jeremy. Jeremy’s been there for five years. He can tell you about life in Ireland. He can help you see, do I see a life here? Along with relocation specialists, immigration attorneys, other subject matter expats, such as, if you’re feeling really anxious about moving abroad, but you really know that’s right for you, you can talk to our expert who speaks to people about developing your resilience as an expat. And then finally, there’s our resources tab where you collect most everything else. Resources like LGBTQ rights We collect job boards there. If you need to move your residency in the US to someplace where you’re not paying estate tax and doing it legally, we’ve got resources for that. We’ve got resources on any number of other different visas and options and educational opportunities that you might want to consider for yourself or your family. We have them all already gathered in one place for you at expatsi.com.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:43:14 – 00:43:20]
It’S amazing that you’ve done that in three years. Honestly. Blows my mind. So kudos to you.

Brett Andrews:
[00:43:20 – 00:43:21]
Thank you.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:43:21 – 00:43:25]
The fact you’ve had 200, 000 people do that test already is completely nuts.

Brett Andrews:
[00:43:25 – 00:43:25]
Yes.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:43:25 – 00:43:54]
I can’t imagine you must have worked 27 hours a day for the last three years so close to it. Expat training does something to you. It just. It just can’t help but change you. It winds your horizons. Everything changes us. But this is one thing that fundamentally changes you. And I’m passionate about it. I want to inspire other people to do it. I think it makes them better people. I think it makes the world a better place. So you. I understand. You know, my. I channel my passion into my business and, and these podcasts, and you’re channeling it into expatsi. So I totally get it.

Brett Andrews:
[00:43:54 – 00:44:51]
Yeah. And. And I agree, moving. Moving abroad does change. Because what you find out when you move abroad is that people are generally. We’re more alike than we are different. Once you get away from news stories and, and, and this horror show or that breaking news bit, once you get to people on the ground and find ways to communicate, we find that people are generally the same. People want to share their culture. People want you to come and experience what they. What they appreciate and embrace what it’s important to them. And you can’t help but find community when you’ve ever brought. Because suddenly you have this rare quality that’s. That’s also shared with everyone else that’s ever left their home country. You know what it’s like to go abroad and live somewhere else and find out that there is life outside of where it came from, and life can be very good and enriching because of it. Yeah.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:44:51 – 00:45:14]
Super exciting as well. Right. So my question is Greece. Tell me. Greece is a wonderful place. And I. I can imagine it makes a wonderful retirement place to see out your days. But I never hear about it in the American community. It’s all factored on Portugal, Spain, Italy and in Greece. And you told me Albania, which I did not know. Do you see much interest in Greece or a growing interest in Greece at all.

Brett Andrews:
[00:45:14 – 00:47:21]
Generally, people looking to move to Greece, they’re looking for a couple things. They’re looking for that Mediterranean life. Sunny skies, sea breezes, the different quality of food, the whole foods. I believe Rhys is one of those what’s called the blue zones, where people tend to live, have abnormally longer lifespans in other parts of the world. And so Greece certainly fits that model. It’s also, it’s, it’s tremendously rich in terms of its, its culture. We, we talk about Greece in terms of bce, not just the last thousand plus years of history. And so there’s a lot going on there. It’s got all the, the visa options that we talked about. Student, skilled worker, you can retire there, you can be a digital nomad, you can invest, if that’s your path. And we’ve also got a consultant there, Pamela. And Pamela is a great person to talk about Greece. She’s been there about two years and she’s a great person to talk about because she’s a double expat. She grew up in Ghana, moved to Texas when she was 11, and then moved to Europe about five years ago and spent the last two years for life in Greece and just absolutely loves the sun, loves the people. She says the language is a bit challenging, but I think intimidates a lot of people because the Greek Alphabet is not the same as the American Alphabet that we’re so accustomed to. But the people that visit there and the people that look at moving abroad there, they’re open to the sense of adventure and they’re open to this slower pace of life that’s warm and sunny and slower and not again, not so driven by money and capital and shareholders and all these other things. And so Greece is certainly coming up in say, our top 10 for Europe in recent months as more and more people are starting to have this conversation about moving abroad and starting to think about where they might want to go. Greece is coming up more and more.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:47:21 – 00:47:34]
Good. I think Greece needs them. All of. It’s a wonderful place. I saw someone on LinkedIn who was lamenting the change of pace in America. Verse they lived in Chile, I think, and someone said America, it’s convenience and consumerism.

Brett Andrews:
[00:47:34 – 00:47:36]
That’s, that’s about right.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:47:36 – 00:47:40]
I think that’s. And, but you do get, you, you know, you do get used to the convenience.

Brett Andrews:
[00:47:40 – 00:48:29]
You get used to the convenience. And it drives certain aspects of American culture that made the US such a powerhouse. Mass production, for example, convenience has, has all of us driving cars. We’re not waiting on trains or taking a walk to go to our destination. We want to get there now, now, now. And so, yeah, it is a different change of pace and that can be, it can be jarring for people. If you’re, if you’re used to working 12, 14 hours a day, if you’re used to having shops open at 7 in the morning, all the way open till 11 o’ clock at night because you want to get your, your pint of milk or your glass of wine, it can take some getting used to. When you find that, oh yeah, the stores closed down for the afternoon, why they didn’t feel like working this afternoon. Yeah. So it does, it does take that adjustment.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:48:32 – 00:48:40]
Brett, thank you so much. This has been fantastic. I’m sure people can guess from, from through this conversation where they can find you, but I’ll ask you anyway. Where can people find you?

Brett Andrews:
[00:48:40 – 00:49:03]
People can always find us at expatsi.com, e x p a t s I .com, you can find us on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, all under that same. If you just search the word expatsi, you will find us there and find even more of our content we’ve made over the last three years and so much of it is 100% free to whoever needs it.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:49:04 – 00:49:05]
Go check it out, folks.

Brett Andrews:
[00:49:05 – 00:49:06]
Check it out.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:49:06 – 00:49:12]
All right, Brett, thank you so much for being on Move to Europe. I appreciate it.

Brett Andrews:
[00:49:12 – 00:49:14]
All right, thanks so much. Cheers, Richard.

Richard Taylor, Founder of Plan First Wealth:
[00:49:14 – 00:49:15]
Okay, see you soon.