Episode 80
Roth IRAs, Market Chaos and Why Expats Are Leaving America
Something is shifting. The questions arriving at Plan First Wealth are changing: clients rattled by geopolitical headlines wanting to know if now is the time to act, expats who’ve spent decades building lives in America quietly deciding they’re done, and British expats returning home realising they left their financial planning far too late. In this in‑person episode from New York City, Richard Taylor and James Boyle reflect on a record‑breaking first quarter at Plan First Wealth, and the conversation reflects exactly where things stand right now.
In this episode of Expat Wealth, Richard Taylor, dual UK/US citizen and Chartered Financial Planner, sits down with James Boyle, Lead Financial Planner at Plan First Wealth, to take stock of a record-breaking quarter, dig into Roth strategy, and talk candidly about what the current political climate is doing to globally mobile families navigating dual tax UK and US rules.
You’ll hear insights on:
The Iran situation, oil prices, and why staying invested through geopolitical volatility is still the right call for expats, and why timing the market almost always backfires.
A plain-English breakdown of Roth IRAs, backdoor Roths, and mega backdoor Roths, including why these accounts are particularly powerful for British expats and anyone considering leaving America.
Expat tax advice on the Roth vs ISA comparison, what matters under the US UK tax treaty, and what can go wrong if you don’t understand how each account is treated across borders.
The surge in expats leaving the US, what’s driving it, why timing your departure by even a few months can have major tax consequences, and why two years’ lead time is the gold standard for expat wealth planning.
The underrated power of a phased retirement, and how a consultancy income or board position can protect your portfolio from early drawdown and turn a borderline plan into a great one.
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Expat Wealth is supported by Plan First Wealth. Plan First Wealth is a Registered Investment Advisor serving fellow expatriates and immigrants living across the US on matters such as retirement planning, investment management, tax planning and non-US asset management.
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Expat Wealth is affiliated with Plan First Wealth LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Plan First Wealth.
Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial adviser and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Plan First Wealth does not provide any tax and/or legal advice and strongly recommends that listeners seek their own advice in these areas.
ABOUT RICHARD:
Richard Taylor is a British expat, dual citizen (UK & US). Originally from Bolton, he now lives in Greenwich, CT, where Plan First Wealth has its head office.
As the firm’s leader, Richard launched Taylor & Taylor, now Plan First Wealth, and continues to fuel the firm’s growth. Richard is a Chartered Financial Planner (UK – CII) in addition to holding the IMC (CFA UK) and Series 65 (US – FINRA).
Connect with Richard on LinkedIn
TRANSCRIPT:
James Boyle:
[00:00:00 – 00:00:06]
The short answer is no, right? Right. The short answer is that you should have a plan in place that you’re confident in.
Richard Taylor:
[00:00:06 – 00:00:19]
And Americans going abroad is exploding right now for whatever reason. There will be more open global, the information being out there, political environment, whatever, but it is, it is exploding as.
James Boyle:
[00:00:19 – 00:00:36]
Long as you have a plan in place. If you’re throwing things at the wall, that’s not helpful. But you know, right now, obviously price of oil is top of everyone’s mind, right? And then, and then you think about the downstream effects when it comes to infl. And does that return or come roaring back? The answer, you alluded to it earlier. No one knows.
Richard Taylor:
[00:00:38 – 00:01:46]
Welcome to Expat Wealth, a Plan first wealth podcast dedicated to helping ambitious expatriates in America and Americans overseas thrive. I’m your host, Richard Taylor, and Plan first wealth is the business I founded and run today. And we work with successful expatriates, immigrants and internationally minded Americans to make the most of their opportunity and avoid the expat landmines. First, a quick disclaimer. While Plan First Wealth LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views and positions of Plan First Wealth. Information presented is for educational purposes only. Now, if you aren’t already receiving our emails, please go to our website, www.planfirstwealth.com and sign up. There it is. It’s free and you’ll be notified every time we drop a new episode. And so much more. Okay, let’s get back to this week’s show. Welcome back to another episode of from the Trenches. This is where I get together with my esteemed colleague James Boyle and we tell you what’s going on at Plan first wealth. What we’re doing in the business with clients. Bring you behind the curtain, behind the scenes.
James Boyle:
[00:01:46 – 00:01:49]
Absolutely. Let you in in person, too.
Richard Taylor:
[00:01:49 – 00:01:58]
We should say in person, live, coming from New York City. So let’s start, James, with. We are recording this the end of the month.
James Boyle:
[00:01:58 – 00:01:58]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:01:59 – 00:02:06]
So let’s just, let’s talk about this first quarter at Plan First Wealth. We’ve had a cracking quarter, haven’t we?
James Boyle:
[00:02:06 – 00:02:28]
We’ve had a fantastic quarter. Really, really appreciative, certainly of the people that we’re working with and also the attention, you know, this podcast is generating, the videos that are generating on YouTube. We’re getting a lot of engagement from our audience, which we can’t thank enough. It’s, it’s, it’s been really fun to see. Busy, but fun well, yeah, let’s go through it.
Richard Taylor:
[00:02:28 – 00:02:36]
So we’ve had our. We’ve had a fantastic start for new business. I think we’ve done more new business in this quarter in. In than we’ve ever done in any quarter ever.
James Boyle:
[00:02:36 – 00:02:38]
It’s the best quarter ever.
Richard Taylor:
[00:02:38 – 00:02:39]
Yeah. Since records began.
James Boyle:
[00:02:39 – 00:02:41]
Yeah, exactly.
Richard Taylor:
[00:02:42 – 00:03:15]
So that’s. That’s wonderful. We have a new website that isn’t long, isn’t live today, but hopefully by the time this goes out next week will be live. And there’s a lot of work. We’ve been working on that for a year. When I say we’re someone else. But yes, with input from us, has been working on that for a year and we’re really excited for that to launch. It’s a big. It’s just a. I like our old website, but it’s just. It’s just a more modern. There’s more going on. I really. I’m excited for that to drop. So hopefully that’ll be live next week. We can stop agonizing over the details on that. We have a new employee.
James Boyle:
[00:03:16 – 00:03:17]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:03:17 – 00:03:19]
Connie has joined. Am I saying that right, Connie?
James Boyle:
[00:03:19 – 00:03:19]
Yes.
Richard Taylor:
[00:03:19 – 00:03:33]
Connie has joined to support. Primarily support James, but it turns out he’s capable of much more than that and he’s supporting us in a whole. Supporting you with your clients and your business, but also on a whole raft of things within the company as well.
James Boyle:
[00:03:33 – 00:03:33]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:03:33 – 00:04:09]
So that’s great. We’ve gone weekly on the podcast. That’s creating a load more content. We’re getting. Putting a load more out there, getting a load more engagement. That’s exciting. Frankly terrifying as well, work. I’m going from bi weekly to weekly. I knew it was going to be a lot, but it’s, it’s more than I expected. It’s just the relentlessness of it and having to find people. But I’m excited where that could take us. And also we have. We’re not going to announce it yet because it’s not sign and seal. There is an exciting development going on with James’s role within plan first. Well, so we’re both very excited where that’s heading and hopefully soon we’ll be able to share what that is. So.
James Boyle:
[00:04:10 – 00:04:31]
Yeah. And, you know, we say these things not to, you know, ring our own bell, which is fun to do also, but also that, you know, the people we work with, the audience that, that, that reaches out to us, that sends questions. They always want to ask, you know, how. How’s the business doing? How’s the health of the business? Is the podcast staying around this good resource which again we, we appreciate. So we’re. We’re here for the long haul. That’s.
Richard Taylor:
[00:04:31 – 00:05:03]
Yeah, that’s for sure. You know who reach. Do you know? I, I actually hear more from on the pocket. Not more about the same is other advisors. Yeah, a lot of advisors and, and people looking to get into the cross border space. So if that is you reach out. Right. So what are we. We’re going to cover today? We’re gonna. I think we have to talk about Iran. Sorry, I just, I’ve got my notes on my phone here and something I did. I think one of my kids did something on my phone the other day and it changed my lock screen.
James Boyle:
[00:05:03 – 00:05:03]
Oh.
Richard Taylor:
[00:05:03 – 00:05:16]
And it’s. No, it’s good. It’s a, it’s a dog that I no longer have. I had a French bulldog called Caesar who I miss every day and, and he just pops up every time and I’ve not changed it back. I’m not, I’m not gonna. I. It is that you never forget these dogs.
James Boyle:
[00:05:16 – 00:05:16]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:05:16 – 00:05:18]
And just seeing him, it’s a nice memory.
James Boyle:
[00:05:18 – 00:05:22]
French bulldogs are such great. I haven’t grown up. Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:05:22 – 00:05:23]
They’re such characters.
James Boyle:
[00:05:23 – 00:05:25]
Yeah, they’re great bulldogs.
Richard Taylor:
[00:05:26 – 00:05:57]
Right. So from French bulldogs, we’re going to talk about Iran. We’re then going to start talking about Roths because it just seems to be. We’re doing a lot of talking about Roths. We’re going to very, very briefly touch on moving back, essentially leaving the U.S. this is just exploding right now. Americans leaving the U.S. and also expats returning. So we’ll just talk on that briefly. Maybe recap if we have time, my last couple of episodes since I last saw you. And then we’ll do our usual pick and mix. So Iran, I mean, look, this, this doesn’t drop till next week, so whatever we say now is going to be.
James Boyle:
[00:05:57 – 00:05:57]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:05:57 – 00:06:06]
Completely out of date, no doubt. But we can’t, I don’t think we can have a podcast without talking about what’s going on in the Middle East.
James Boyle:
[00:06:07 – 00:07:03]
It’s, you know, it’s. As always on this show, we want to focus on the financial aspect, the market aspect, the economic aspect. Obviously there’s a lot else that can be discussed that we’ll try to leave to people who are more informed or more interested in discussing it. But right now the volatility is, is jarring. Right. Is unsettling. And we’re hearing it right. We’re getting questions, we’re getting, you know, concerned clients, people who just worry about, you know, what Impact does this kind of short term volatility have on my plan, which, which you know, we can certainly talk about and assuage some of those fears, but also more broadly, you know, the kind of underlying fear of is this some kind of watershed moment where that I need to be thinking about this differently from an investment standpoint point. And listeners, longtime listeners will know our philosophy. The short answer is no. Right? Right. The short answer is that you should have a plan in place that you’re confident in.
Richard Taylor:
[00:07:04 – 00:07:05]
People think that’s glib.
James Boyle:
[00:07:05 – 00:07:05]
Right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:07:05 – 00:08:01]
And I find some people react negatively to that. It’s interesting to my clients. What I find is that long standing clients don’t reach out because they just know we’ve been through this with them so many times. You name your crisis. We’ve had debt crisis. We’ve had, we’ve had a global pandemic. We’ve never had one then before. So. Well, in the last hundred years. So we’ve had more wars since. We’ve had global pandemics and that. So our, our clients are our longest standing clients are conditioned now I believe, and condition might be the wrong word. They are conditioned. But I like to think they believe now they bought it. They’ve heard us say the same thing and repeat it enough to know. No, no. This is a deep seated belief from them. This isn’t just, they’re not just saying this to me to make me go away. They’re not just saying this because they don’t have any answers, although does anyone have any answers? But they truly deep down believe this. And by the way, it’s supported by the, by the weight of evidence.
James Boyle:
[00:08:01 – 00:08:11]
They’ve seen it. Yeah, that’s, that’s such a key point. Right. When, when it’s hypothetical, it’s one thing. When they’ve, when they’ve actually seen the performance of the, the portfolios, the strategies over time and the longer evidence.
Richard Taylor:
[00:08:11 – 00:08:20]
Yeah, that’s there, that’s that, you know, they’ve got maybe 10 years of us, but we can go back 100 years longer. It’s never. The answer is never.
James Boyle:
[00:08:20 – 00:09:32]
Yeah. As long as you have a plan in place. If you’re throwing things at the wall, that’s not helpful. But you know, right now obviously price of oil is top of everyone’s mind. Right. And then, and then you think about the downstream effects when it comes to inflation. Right. And does that return or come roaring back? The answer, you alluded to it earlier. No one knows. Right. In an administration or an environment like this one, social media post one statement that may or may not be founded or unfounded by someone in a position of authority can send the markets ricocheting back upwards. And the real danger, which again at the risk of sounded like a broken record here trying to time these things, you have to do it right twice. So not only do you have to decide when to sell, you then have to decide when to get back in. And one of the most critical and dangerous elements, something that could derail an otherwise successful plan is missing. That bounce back, right, is missing one social media post from, from someone in charge that sends the markets flying 2, 3% and then we’re off to the races. Is that going to happen? Who can say, right?
Richard Taylor:
[00:09:32 – 00:09:32]
We don’t know.
James Boyle:
[00:09:32 – 00:09:43]
Is this, is this a short term, medium term, longer term issue? Who can say? But, but you do yourself a disservice, I believe, we believe as an investor by trying to make short term moves in an environment.
Richard Taylor:
[00:09:43 – 00:10:41]
I, I arrived in America in 2015 and I vividly remember a conversation I had with someone when I was like trying to build a book of business back then from scratch. And I spoke to someone who told me about it was either their neighbor or themselves. I think it was a neighbor who had in the Global Financial Crisis 2008, 2009 gone to cash in their 401k in fear. And we had this, I was having this conversation 2015, that person was still in cash because they got out in fear market bottoms. It flies back the news throughout 2009. I remember I was working then was awful. Everyone was just waiting for the shoe to drop again. Y and it never did. It just took off. And by then it will have surpassed where you got out. And then you’re waiting for it to dip again. You’re waiting for the next shoe to drop and it doesn’t drop. And this person seven years later crystallized a loss was waiting to get back in. You know, they just set fire to money.
James Boyle:
[00:10:41 – 00:10:55]
You, you’ll never, I mean it’s not hopeless, right? But, but missing a rally like that or, or really an entire bull market that means in effect a permanent reduction in lifestyle, right? It’s, it’s terrifying.
Richard Taylor:
[00:10:55 – 00:12:07]
I’m gonna go out on a limb here, which is a bit dangerous. I’m gonna go on a lim now. I don’t want to minimize what’s going on. What’s going on in the Middle east has the potential to escalate into a, into a truly awful place. I already think we’re going to have years on consequences. I don’t think as that’s it’s, that’s the truth. That’s a fact. We’re going to have years on consequences. But it, I do think it has the potential to escalate into something truly horrific. That being said, I think we deal in probabilities, not possibilities. Anything is theoretically possible. And if you lived your life according to. And we manage our clients according to possibilities, you wouldn’t do anything. You wouldn’t get out of bed. You certainly wouldn’t get in a car. I wouldn’t walk around the streets in New York City to come here. But we have to live in the world of probabilities. What’s more probable, like, you know, weighted bets. And I think the probability is that it will de. Escalate and hopefully, and I hope relatively soon we’ll find a solution. And the reason I, more than anything, I think it comes down to the political environment.
James Boyle:
[00:12:07 – 00:12:08]
Yeah, I agree.
Richard Taylor:
[00:12:08 – 00:12:31]
We. This is a midterm year and I think that Republicans are in a really bad spot. Not just because of this. I think the Epstein thing is still lingering and will not go away. And that hurts even the. The mega base, as far as I understand it. Or that puts them off. We have. Have you seen these TSA lines?
James Boyle:
[00:12:31 – 00:12:32]
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:12:32 – 00:12:39]
That horrible. That is Right. There’s two things that I think really upset America. Gas prices.
James Boyle:
[00:12:39 – 00:12:40]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:12:40 – 00:12:44]
I mean, truly this country. What Gas prices and TSA lines.
James Boyle:
[00:12:44 – 00:12:44]
Richard Taylor:
[00:12:44 – 00:13:00]
And we’re getting to a place with TSA like this is they’re not getting paid. The lines are savage, horrendous. I, you know, if this goes on much longer, will there be anyone. If I was tsa, I would start coming in. Imagine they just have to stop flying. If America cannot fly.
James Boyle:
[00:13:01 – 00:13:02]
They.
Richard Taylor:
[00:13:02 – 00:13:07]
And they are on. Their gas prices are going through the roof. They will lose their mind. We will lose our mind.
James Boyle:
[00:13:07 – 00:13:07]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:13:07 – 00:13:26]
You’re an American. I’m an American now. I’ve got a flight coming up. And I just think the pressure on them because of these three things, gas prices, TSA lines, and the Epstein files, which will not go away. I just can’t imagine a scenario where they let this escalate is so unpopular already.
James Boyle:
[00:13:26 – 00:13:39]
I tend to agree. You know, and obviously the fears is that it escalates to a point that is beyond the ego of one or two people to reverse, which is a real, you know, a real threat. But.
Richard Taylor:
[00:13:39 – 00:13:41]
But it’s no one’s real interest.
James Boyle:
[00:13:41 – 00:13:41]
Right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:13:41 – 00:13:42]
I hear what you’re saying.
James Boyle:
[00:13:42 – 00:13:43]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:13:43 – 00:14:01]
And Iran, you know, I think, I think it’s dangerous to think about. Put yourself in the mind of Donald Trump. And his administration is equally as dangerous. To put myself in the mindset of Iran and what’s going on there, this is, this is way above my pay grade. But a prolonged war, billions more in destruction is to no one.
James Boyle:
[00:14:01 – 00:14:34]
Yeah, yeah. And you know, to your point about probabilities versus possibilities and going back to this idea of having a plan, you want to build your portfolio in such a way that’s hedged against certain circumstances or diversified correctly, or that you have an income source in place or a cash buffer in place. Right. It’s not to discount all these strategies that go into prudent portfolio management, income management, but you know, at the end of the day, in some ways, volatility is the toll we pay. Right. That’s what gets you those long term returns.
Richard Taylor:
[00:14:34 – 00:14:47]
You know what? I think you just made a great point. I just, Right. So my, I, I, I’m, I said never, never. As if that was. You never sell. That’s the answer. But you’re absolutely right to highlight this. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing else going on.
James Boyle:
[00:14:47 – 00:14:48]
Right, right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:14:49 – 00:15:10]
You’re right. Especially when clients are in drawdown, when clients are pulling money out their portfolios to live on. Having the wider apparatus, the wider plan in place prior to the latest round of volatility, which we’re seeing now, this time it’s war. Last time it was, was it in 2022. I’ve already forgotten. We had the meme economy. And then the.
James Boyle:
[00:15:10 – 00:15:12]
Really interest rates, inflation rates.
Richard Taylor:
[00:15:12 – 00:15:16]
Interest rates. And then it was Covid.
James Boyle:
[00:15:16 – 00:15:16]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:15:16 – 00:15:23]
We had a Greek debt crisis, a European debt crisis. Yeah. Greek was gonna go bust and we had, it’s just one after another, folks.
James Boyle:
[00:15:23 – 00:16:00]
Yeah. I was thinking when we were coming in here today, you know, thinking about the, the introduction. Right. And what we chat about at the top, there’s always this tempt, cheap joke of like that’s boring day in the markets. Right. Nothing going on. But the truth is that it’s always an exciting. There’s always something going on. Right. And again, not to discount what’s going on now. It’s obviously it’s a concern and there are real people being affected, but financially there’s always some headline and there’s always some crisis du jour, to borrow a term. And it’s how we get through that. Right. And not blow up our plans, not upend what we’ve worked for.
Richard Taylor:
[00:16:00 – 00:16:01]
The economy is looking a little bit wobbly.
James Boyle:
[00:16:01 – 00:16:02]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:16:02 – 00:16:12]
I mean it’s doing, it’s doing good and companies are still printing money, but you know, job creation is down Interest rates are probably aren’t going to come down again this year.
James Boyle:
[00:16:13 – 00:17:06]
Yeah, the, the, the flip on interest rate predictions, projections has been pretty fascinating to watch. We went from something like 95% chance of at least one cut in 2026. That’s now down to 17% I believe last time I read. And even pricing in an 8% potential for a rate hike, which again, I think all ties into the crude oil story. And to your point about the affordability crisis, that has been a pretty shocking turnaround. Same thing we’ve seen in the gold markets. Right. Commodities have really taken a beating. Behaving more like emerging markets funds, which in an asset that’s meant to be a Safe Haven, a 25% haircut in a month or two is, is unsettling. I’m sure Bitcoin is not doing what it should be. Bitcoin’s down. Yep. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s.
Richard Taylor:
[00:17:07 – 00:17:14]
Housing market is completely gummed up. Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s a historic all time low in activity. Yeah, that accounts for a lot of activity.
James Boyle:
[00:17:14 – 00:17:37]
Yes. In, in this economy, everything’s kind of frozen. Right. Rates over 6% for. I think it’s the longest time period of over 6% since like the 70s, I want to say. Yeah. Or 80s. So it does, it does worry you know, if in a short term outlook what does the economy look like in the labor market.
Richard Taylor:
[00:17:37 – 00:17:40]
But also we’ve had a cracking three years.
James Boyle:
[00:17:40 – 00:17:40]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:17:41 – 00:17:54]
- Four. Yeah, three. Three years on the back. 2022 Was horrible. And then we’ve had an absolutely cracking three years. Economy’s been flying, stock market’s been flying. We’re having a, we’re having a wobble.
James Boyle:
[00:17:54 – 00:17:54]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:17:54 – 00:17:56]
And that’s normal.
James Boyle:
[00:17:56 – 00:17:59]
And it was. Right, Right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:17:59 – 00:18:05]
But you kind of need a wobble. You can’t, you can’t go up 20 a year. And definitely it’s 20. 2020 Minus 2020.
James Boyle:
[00:18:05 – 00:18:51]
You know, that’s, Yep, there’s that, that famous. And we’ll, we’ll throw this stat out. I think since 1950, average intra year drawdown for the S and P, using it as a, as a shorthand, 14%. Just about 14% even the last three years. I took a look at 2025, 2024, 2023, when we’ve been on this kind of upswing. I think 2023, 2024 markets up something like 25% a year more than that. 2025 Last year up something like 18%. Every one of those years had a drawdown. Of at least 8%. And last year, obviously, we had the tariff crisis. That was a hair under 20%, I believe. And look at where you’re.
Richard Taylor:
[00:18:52 – 00:19:02]
You know, I feel like some people might listen to this thing. Right, okay, great. I hear you. But if you’ve known it’s in 20, 20, 20, and you think it’s going to go down 20, why don’t you just, like, take action? That’s the fallacy.
James Boyle:
[00:19:02 – 00:19:02]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:19:02 – 00:19:16]
That. That you think that. You think what? Everything I’m saying makes sense. So why not. Why not, like, take preventive action? That’s where you come unstuck as far as humans. I don’t really know what’s going to happen today. Tomorrow it could go up 20%. Yeah, yeah.
James Boyle:
[00:19:16 – 00:19:46]
And. And don’t do it there. There’s reams and reams of decades of study about why that’s a terrible idea. But, but even just going back to that point of when are you going to get back in? Right. Well, when do you think you’re going to feel comfortable enough? Because having, you know, being in the industry now for over a decade, people think they have a plan. Right. And then, you know, what’s the, what’s the old. Was it. Was it Tyson until they get punched in the mouth? Yeah. And, you know, it’s, it’s. We’re in an environment where those punches keep coming.
Richard Taylor:
[00:19:47 – 00:19:47]
Punch in the face.
James Boyle:
[00:19:47 – 00:19:49]
Yeah. Yep. Absolutely.
Richard Taylor:
[00:19:49 – 00:19:53]
This administration is chaotic.
James Boyle:
[00:19:53 – 00:19:53]
Chaos.
Richard Taylor:
[00:19:54 – 00:19:56]
It’s just one thing after another.
James Boyle:
[00:19:56 – 00:19:56]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:19:56 – 00:20:07]
And yeah, you. The first term was a bit like this, although less well organized. Everyone’s exhausted, even though politically neutral.
James Boyle:
[00:20:07 – 00:20:07]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:20:07 – 00:20:15]
You know, Die Hard Maggot is one thing, but, but outside of that, I think everyone else is just like, really. It’s just like. And onslaught.
James Boyle:
[00:20:15 – 00:20:30]
Don’t bring things out too much. But you feel like I expect this to continue. Right. Indefinitely until, you know, maybe the midterms change things. I don’t know. You know, that might be optimistic thing, but beyond that, you know, it just feels like this circus is going to continue.
Richard Taylor:
[00:20:30 – 00:20:32]
Well, at least. Well, at least.
James Boyle:
[00:20:33 – 00:20:33]
Right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:20:33 – 00:20:34]
This administration. Yeah.
James Boyle:
[00:20:34 – 00:20:35]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:20:35 – 00:20:37]
So I, I hope the midterms dampens.
James Boyle:
[00:20:37 – 00:20:49]
It to put TBD and that you, you hit the nail on the head there. The sense of exhaustion, of like, we’re still. We’re doing this again. What. You know, what, what fresh headlines await me this morning, you know.
Richard Taylor:
[00:20:52 – 00:20:55]
Right. Well, okay. So moving swiftly on.
James Boyle:
[00:20:55 – 00:20:56]
Yes. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:20:57 – 00:21:02]
So we’re going to talk about Roths and we’re going to talk about Roths, because we’re talking about Roths a lot.
James Boyle:
[00:21:02 – 00:22:36]
Yes, we’ve got a lot of questions about this. You know, we, we get everything from, from what are they? Which will, you know, we’ll cover. What does it mean? Certainly from expats and then strategies that are unique to the Roth vehicle or account type that not only are attractive and really powerful for the everyday sort of US domestic investor, but there are some use cases that are particularly powerful for expats or for people who certainly potentially could be leaving the states in the near term. So to just kick us off, right, this idea of Roth, what is it? You’ll hear the term traditional. That’s the opposite of the Roth in a lot of ways. That’s the older sort of retirement vehicle. That’s the classic pre tax account. So you get the tax deduction up front. When those dollars go in, they grow tax deferred, right? You’re not paying taxes on dividends, capital gains, sales in those accounts. When you go to take income out of them, when you go to take withdrawals, they’re fully taxable as ordinary income. Roths are kind of the opposite of that in that they’re funded with after tax dollars. So you’re not getting this tax deduction upfront, but they grow completely tax free. And then when you go to take withdrawals subject to a couple rules, right, the account’s open for five years and you’re over 59 and a half. You take all of that income completely tax free at that point. So you’re talking about potentially decades of compounded growth in these accounts that’s never been taxed, right beyond that initial upfront taxation and then completely distributed tax free.
Richard Taylor:
[00:22:36 – 00:23:37]
So these accounts are really attract because they grow tax free and you take money out of them tax free. I mean, we want more Roths. Yeah, really. And for any Brits listening to this, that’s most analogous with an isa. Yeah, in that we put money in after tax, after we’ve been paid, we’ve been taxed, then we can put money into an isa. It grows tax free. You take money out tax free and there are limits to how much you can put in. One key difference though, for any Brits though is a Roth is a retirement account and an ISA is not a retirement account. That’s important for how ISAs are treated in the US that’s not a topic for this podcast, but it’s really important because when you have a Roth in the UK or, or elsewhere, or you have a, an ISA in America, you look to the treaty for how to tax it and Roth falls under the retirement account. Section which is generally much better built out and an ISA doesn’t. And that can cause a lot of problems. Not, not for this podcast, but just, that’s one for people to be aware of.
James Boyle:
[00:23:37 – 00:23:40]
Critical point. Yeah, it’s, it’s, that’s why Roths are.
Richard Taylor:
[00:23:40 – 00:23:49]
Better because you go with a rot. You take a Roth to the uk, you take a Roth to a lot of other countries with a robust tax treaty in place and it works beautifully. Not always. And it’s country by country.
James Boyle:
[00:23:49 – 00:23:49]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:23:49 – 00:23:53]
But generally you Roths are good.
James Boyle:
[00:23:53 – 00:25:46]
Yeah, it’s. And, and sort of underlining this whole point is there’s some element which, which I’ll come back to in a few minutes here, but there is a real strength to having tax diversification as well. Heading into retirement. Right. Very often our clients or the people we’re working with are going to be heading into retirement with multiple different tax vehicles, right. Different tax accounts. They might have traditional accounts, they might have Roth accounts, they might have post tax, just a normal sort of brokerage account. Right. There is a lot you can do. There are a lot of strategies you can imp creatively, you know, as you start to build out that income plan that we alluded to earlier, that allows you to optimize, right. That allows you to minimize the tax you’re, you’re, you’re paying while still taking a healthy level of income that can sustain the lifestyle that you’d like in retirement. So that in and of itself just kind of the existence of these accounts and having funds in each of these buckets can be beneficial. Then we come to the kind of specific strategies that, that we often get asked about, right. We get emails, we get phone calls, question. The first of these, we can talk about a backdoor Roth. Right. Kind of a fun name. What it means is maybe the simplest to understand as well. Roth IRAs have income limits when it comes to eligibility for contribution. Right. So that’s a long way of saying if you’re a high earner, if you make above a certain income limit, I think it’s about two something. 236,000 Per year for a married filing jointly couple, you’re not eligible to contribute to a Roth ira. There is a loophole or workaround. It’s completely legal. The IRS has acknowledged it. Where you contribute to a traditional IRA as a non deductible contribution, you immediately then convert that into a Roth ira. The logistics of it matter less than the benefit.
Richard Taylor:
[00:25:46 – 00:25:47]
Right.
James Boyle:
[00:25:47 – 00:25:48]
Which is essentially a way that.
Richard Taylor:
[00:25:48 – 00:25:49]
It’s so odd, isn’t it?
James Boyle:
[00:25:49 – 00:25:50]
It is strange.
Richard Taylor:
[00:25:50 – 00:25:56]
Why bother having the income limits. If, if, if doing a backdoor Roth is completely legitimate.
James Boyle:
[00:25:56 – 00:26:39]
It’s, it’s bizarre and it’s just do away with it. It’s one of those things where, and, and I have read about the history of it. I think it was actually one of those things that was debated upon and initially wasn’t the intention. Then it kind of got, you know, it was like a negotiating term or you know, something to that effect. But, but it exists and it’s available. Right. So it’s a way that if you’re a high earner, you can still contribute to a Roth ira. There are caveats. There’s something called the pro rata rule, which essentially means that if you have pre tax IRA funds. So if you have a traditional ira, you have a rollover IRA or a rollover ira. Yep, yep. There, there may be or will be tax assessed on some of those funds as well. So, so that can mitigate.
Richard Taylor:
[00:26:39 – 00:26:51]
I just want to jump in it. This. Is anyone listening who’s thinking, oh, do you know what I’ll do about door Roth? Excuse me. You have to be super careful. If you have any other money in an Iraq, you could get wallet with a surprise tax bill. Yeah, you want to be really careful about that.
James Boyle:
[00:26:51 – 00:28:50]
Yep. Yes. That’s a key point is be careful about going on this on your own. Right. Without either a financial planner or a tax advisor because you don’t want to trigger something and then the IRS comes knocking. One year, one year on, I’ll spend a little bit of time with mega backdoor Roth. Right. Worth covering. So, so sounds aggressive. It sounds like a Marvel movie or something. Right. The mega backdoor Roth account. Again, logistics probably less, less important here, but it is a way for high earners again to, to, to pile in more funds into a, into a Roth account through your 401k. Long story short, in a 401k, you have a, an annual contribution limit as an employee. I think it’s 24 or 5 for the year. There’ll be some, some potentially some employer matching on top of that. Then there’s this overall limit, a kind of total, some limit I think is about 72,000 in 2026. There is a mechanism, provided this is a key point, provided that it’s allowable within your 401k plan. It kind of has to be built in such a way that allows for this where you can then fill up, you can almost top up up to that $72,000 limit with after tax funds that are then converted to a Roth So similar kind of mechanism as the backdoor Roth. What it means in effect is that a higher. And it could potentially put, put, you know, put away up to 72,000 into their 401k. That is tax advantaged. Right. Some of that might be pre tax, some of it employer matching, some of it Roth. But you’re talking about serious dollar amounts. Right. Certainly for our clients who tend to come here with a company, an executive position, making a good amount of money, they might not even know this exists. So that’s an easy, very easy opportunity to say, look, you should, you should at first ask your plan administrator, right. Your hr, is this allowable? And if it is, and you’re looking for places to, to invest some money. Absolutely. You want to be taking advantage of this.
Richard Taylor:
[00:28:50 – 00:29:18]
So let’s just say like Roth good, simple as that. Roth good. Get more money in Roth. Yes. Caveat. Just be careful if you have an IRA because that can lead to surprise taxes. But also if you’re a cross border person, if you, as I imagine most people listening to this are or work with cross border people and you think you will, may one day leave the US and you know where you’ll go. You want to look into the situation for Roths in that country.
James Boyle:
[00:29:18 – 00:29:19]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:29:19 – 00:29:36]
If they respect them like the uk, fantastic. If they don’t, you might have to have a serious, you know, you might have to think about whether it’s the best place for your money or not. So do if you are thinking of leaving the US and you, and you know where you’re going to go. Check that out. Find that out.
James Boyle:
[00:29:36 – 00:29:42]
Yep. It’s, it’s one of those things where if it works like for the uk, I think we’re fairly confident in that it works.
Richard Taylor:
[00:29:42 – 00:29:43]
It’s great.
James Boyle:
[00:29:43 – 00:29:46]
Beautifully. Yeah, it’s a great opportunity if you have a Runway.
Richard Taylor:
[00:29:46 – 00:29:48]
We always talk about, especially sorry in the UK where.
James Boyle:
[00:29:48 – 00:29:49]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:29:49 – 00:29:51]
Tax is so much higher. Yeah, yeah, sorry.
James Boyle:
[00:29:51 – 00:29:58]
No, no, no, I say that it’s almost, it’s almost, you know, a double win. Right. So you’re, you know, you’re getting the US tax.
Richard Taylor:
[00:29:58 – 00:30:10]
We’ve had clients who are, who are moving back to the UK and will often provide. We have enough time do some Roth conversions before they leave. Especially if you’re in a no state tax state, you know, you’re a Florida or Texas. It’s almost a no brainer.
James Boyle:
[00:30:10 – 00:30:10]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:30:10 – 00:30:14]
Going into a much higher UK tax environment. Yeah. Get, get your Roths, get your Roths.
James Boyle:
[00:30:14 – 00:30:57]
In, provided they have enough time. You’re touching on, provided you’re touching on something key there. Yeah. We talk about this a lot. Right. When it, when it comes to either tax issues or areas where we like to bring in a cross border tax advisor, almost always we’re going to recommend that our clients are working with a qualified cross border tax advisor anyway where there are specific areas of advice, we tend to take the stance pretty firmly. And I think we’re going to be more firm about this and more upfront about this. At the very, very least, we are talking bare minimum, you want one year, one full year at least to take advice, to allow that advice to be understood. Processed.
Richard Taylor:
[00:30:57 – 00:30:58]
Implemented.
James Boyle:
[00:30:58 – 00:30:59]
Implemented. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:30:59 – 00:31:06]
Should I actually. Should we just rewind a second and say why we’re going. Why are we just taking this segue? We’re getting more and more people reaching out to us about moving away.
James Boyle:
[00:31:06 – 00:31:07]
Yes.
Richard Taylor:
[00:31:07 – 00:31:36]
Now, part of that is, I think, because we’re putting out more content that is for Americans abroad and Americans going abroad is exploding right now for whatever reason. There will be more open global, the information being out there, political environment, whatever. But it is, it is exploding. But what we’ve seen, which I don’t think I was quite anticipating to the same extent, is expats are moving back in more in higher numbers than I’ve ever experienced.
James Boyle:
[00:31:36 – 00:31:39]
You mean expats going back to their home. Home country. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:31:39 – 00:31:40]
Or Europe.
James Boyle:
[00:31:41 – 00:31:42]
Right, right. Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:31:43 – 00:31:48]
That’s taking. I mean, it does make sense, but it also has taken me by surprise.
James Boyle:
[00:31:48 – 00:32:04]
It’s one of those things certainly, you know, as you describe it, it does make sense. Right. Kind of on the surface. But I’ve been surprised equally where I think the sort of. The strength of it and just the sheer numbers that we’re seeing way more than, than any time I’ve been.
Richard Taylor:
[00:32:04 – 00:32:28]
No, yeah, yeah. I didn’t think politics would be. Look, I’m assuming it’s politics and the state of this country’s political situation. I don’t know if it is that, but that’s my assumption. And I just assume that when people have built a life here over 30 years, we’ve seen 30 years that they were just going to bear it.
James Boyle:
[00:32:28 – 00:32:28]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:32:29 – 00:32:29]
And then.
James Boyle:
[00:32:29 – 00:32:53]
No, no, it’s. We also have plenty of people we work with or, or talk with who, who are kind of on the fence. Right. Where it’s. I’m not sure. And we might have kids back home and kids here and grandkids enter the picture. If that is a weighing choice. Right. If there’s some uncertainty there. I am seeing more and more that this is a thumb on the scale. Right. That this is having a really.
Richard Taylor:
[00:32:53 – 00:32:58]
Yeah, okay, so it was already like, should I, shouldn’t I? And now it’s just like, oh, right, well, let’s just do it.
James Boyle:
[00:32:58 – 00:33:24]
Right. Those people on the margin who maybe hadn’t even considered it seriously, certainly now are coming to me saying, look, look, this is happening and we’re leaving. Sometimes it’s, we’re leaving in three months, which is always difficult, right, to try to navigate that. But yeah, I agree. I’ve been surprised by the breadth of it and sort of the, the veracity, the kind of, the more confidence in saying we’re going back, you know, so.
Richard Taylor:
[00:33:24 – 00:33:37]
To James’s point, we say a year idea longer. And the reason that we idea the longer is we need a year minimum when someone’s really focused and engaged and moving quickly.
James Boyle:
[00:33:37 – 00:33:37]
Yeah, right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:33:37 – 00:34:01]
But what happens is when you move in back, you’ve got a million things going on. And yeah, we get a year, but it takes a long time to get back to this person. And then that report gets delayed and, and a year gets eaten up like that. Yeah, really, we want two years and we can move at a better pace. And this matters from two to, from two perspectives. One, there’s, you want to implement stuff and we want to implement stuff in the right tax year.
James Boyle:
[00:34:01 – 00:34:02]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:34:02 – 00:34:42]
And two, you need to be cognizant of. It can really matter when you go back in terms of the amount of time you spend in one country in a tax year can make you liable for taxation in that country for the entire year. So you, it might really matter whether you return to the UK in June or in November. You know, if you, if you reply, if you go move to the UK or somewhere else in June, so possibly you’re then going to be a tax resident for that entire tax year in England or Britain or wherever you are. And that can cause, that can cause tax complications and even increase in taxation. Whereas if you move later on, you might only be tax resident from when you land, giving you more options.
James Boyle:
[00:34:42 – 00:34:58]
And not to belabor the point, but sometimes trips. Right. A holiday taken earlier in that tax year can, in retrospect, through HMRC’s interpretation, could tip you over or start the clock way sooner than you had anticipated. That happens a lot.
Richard Taylor:
[00:34:58 – 00:35:33]
We talk about opportunities and landmines and moving back, leaving in America often, I think is one of those, creates opportunities. You know, I, I think being an expat in America and being an American abroad is littered with an unbelievable amount of landmines. Yeah, Expensive landmines. But there are opportunities oftentimes and One of the biggest opportunities is moving country, leaving the U.S. things like the rock conversion we talked about before that and, and you don’t want to squander that opportunity. And in fact, you don’t just want to. To miss the opportunity, but you don’t want to turn it off. What is an opportunity into a landmine.
James Boyle:
[00:35:33 – 00:35:34]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:35:34 – 00:35:53]
And there is so much you’re not aware of. There’s. We learn new stuff. Yeah. Just you think you, who would have thought that going for a holiday, going to the UK for two weeks in April. My. The later. Cause you become a tax resident in that year and you know, you’ve. There’s so much to think about and.
James Boyle:
[00:35:53 – 00:36:26]
It could be as innocent as. And this is something that we hear a lot. You know, a trip that you take every year in the summer so the kids see the grandparents, whatever it may be, where it’s something that’s so routine, so anodyne, so harmless and. Yes. And you don’t even realize, oh, this has vastly painful unintended consequences. So that, that idea of timing. I know we’ve talked about it before, but it really is a year, bare minimum. Really. You want to be looking at two potentially more years out. The more time you have, the more options you have, the better flexibility you have. And ultimately that will mean more dollars in your pocket market. Right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:36:26 – 00:36:40]
Ultimately. Yeah. So what Landmines, a lot. They’re everywhere. They can be avoided. They can be very costly if not avoided. And if you do, if you have set on a landmine, it’s better for you to repair it than wait for the irs. That is a land. But folks, there are opportunities.
James Boyle:
[00:36:40 – 00:36:41]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:36:41 – 00:36:42]
And this is a big one.
James Boyle:
[00:36:42 – 00:36:42]
Yeah, absolutely.
Richard Taylor:
[00:36:42 – 00:36:43]
Don’t squander it.
James Boyle:
[00:36:43 – 00:36:56]
Absolutely. And I, honestly, I expect it. I know we both said we were surprised by that, by the pattern, but. But now it feels like it’s, it’s gangster. Yes. I think it’s reached some critical mass and Yeah, I don’t expect it to slow down at all. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:36:56 – 00:37:16]
No, I’m sad about it. Yeah. Don’t be wrong. I’m an advocate for Americans moving to Europe and changing the quality of their lives. I, I think that’s something that Americans should do. Should it should, should investigate. I think it’s life changing. I think Europe’s incredible. I miss it. But just the diet, just the, the what that signifies.
James Boyle:
[00:37:16 – 00:37:17]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:37:17 – 00:37:28]
I find quite sad and disturbing and also worrying. Like, yeah, you know, America’s birth rate is too low right now and one of the things that propped up America is immigration.
James Boyle:
[00:37:28 – 00:37:28]
Yes.
Richard Taylor:
[00:37:28 – 00:37:41]
I Don’t understand like it’s such an own goal kicking out the immigrants and then dissuading people from immigrating. And I know they said that’s not the goal but that’s, that’s the reality is going to hurt this country.
James Boyle:
[00:37:41 – 00:37:41]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:37:41 – 00:37:47]
It’s going to hurt people financially. The prosperity is country because there’s not enough people.
James Boyle:
[00:37:47 – 00:37:48]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:37:48 – 00:37:49]
Being born.
James Boyle:
[00:37:49 – 00:38:39]
There’s so much that can be said about this. It’s not the country that I believe us to be. And it is, it’s, it’s depressing is just the way to say it. I mean it’s, it’s, you don’t know what to say. And what is the ultimate fallout of all this with you’re right, you know, a falling population and I don’t know honestly long term. And these are not, you know, thinking about bringing it back to the people that we talk with. These are not easy decisions to make. Right. These are really lifestyle. Where do we want to be? Where do we do we want to be closer to family and where is our friends and, and you know, where’s our home? And to have something as crass in a way or vulgar as, as the, just the degradation we’ve seen, it is upsetting and, and it’s, it’s unfortunate and I, I don’t know.
Richard Taylor:
[00:38:39 – 00:38:52]
I just, you know I believe in America. It’s a very, very imperfect place but it’s, but it’s, I, I, this country’s got so much to offer. It’s so, it’s an incredible powerhouse and I don’t want that to be squandered.
James Boyle:
[00:38:52 – 00:38:52]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:38:52 – 00:40:32]
I’m excited to announce that Expat wealth has its first sponsor, the Global Financial Planning Institute. The GFPI exists to provide education, community tools, resources and ongoing research for financial planners and other advanced financial professionals working with international and cross border clients in the US And Americans abroad. I’m a GFP Institute fellow and I’ve put all our employees through their GFPI programs when they join us. I’ve met some great people. I’ve learned a ton. It’s a genuine community of internationally minded folk doing their best to serve their clients properly and critically. Sharing what they know in the oftentimes challenging and ambiguous US Cross border environment. And as anyone in this sector will tell you, you’re always learning. So if you work with international clients and or Americans abroad or if this is an area you’re looking to get into, check out the gfpi@www.gfp.in stute you will be glad you did, and I hope to see you there soon. I’ll just recap a couple of episodes. So I sat where you’re sat now. I had Naomi and we talked about careers after retirement and I particularly enjoyed this episode. Yeah, it was nice to do something different. Not financial, but also it was nice to talk about something that I think doesn’t get anywhere near enough airplay and that is staying engaged, motivated, even earning in retirement. As I mentioned this podcast, we have so many plans right now. Financial plans built with a line item for consultancy. As in we have a high powered exec who’s working, who’s busting their nuts.
James Boyle:
[00:40:32 – 00:40:32]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:40:32 – 00:40:38]
Taking tons of money and is like, I can’t go on like this, guys. I wanna, I want out, but I don’t want to do nothing.
James Boyle:
[00:40:38 – 00:40:38]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:40:38 – 00:40:46]
So we stick in consultancy. And I’m always like, what does he even mean? I’ve always been frustrated by the kind of, the lack of clarity of what.
James Boyle:
[00:40:46 – 00:40:48]
That is and you know, so vague.
Richard Taylor:
[00:40:48 – 00:40:49]
So vague.
James Boyle:
[00:40:49 – 00:40:49]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:40:49 – 00:41:08]
Thank you. And Naomi came in and talked about board positions and how this is way more accessible and realistic than people realize. And I thought, I thought it sounded like a great option for people to consider multiple board positions. We don’t even call it retirement at Plan First World. We call it what next.
James Boyle:
[00:41:08 – 00:41:08]
What’s next?
Richard Taylor:
[00:41:08 – 00:41:28]
We don’t want people just to down tools and do nothing. We’ve got one client who went and we became a docent in, he’s in, he’s in D.C. so he’s now he’s a docent. You know, we want people to be engaged and I thought it was a great, a great look behind the curtain on what the, what an option people. I haven’t, I don’t think clients have considered this. I’ve never talked to anyone about board positions.
James Boyle:
[00:41:28 – 00:41:55]
No, no. It’s not something that comes up often. But it, that episode was really encouraging, I think because we’ve talked about this a lot. I know the audience that’s listening to this. Certainly the people that we work with are, are globally mobile people. They are adventurous. They, they want to be doing things right. The, the, the idea of retirement is not, you know, sitting on the Lazy Boy and kicking your feet up. It’s, it’s exactly what you said. It’s what’? What, what should I be putting my energy towards? My time towards.
Richard Taylor:
[00:41:56 – 00:41:57]
But not all my energy.
James Boyle:
[00:41:57 – 00:41:58]
Yes.
Richard Taylor:
[00:41:58 – 00:41:59]
All my time.
James Boyle:
[00:41:59 – 00:42:31]
Yeah. Yeah. Being in control of, of. You might use the term financial independence. Right. We talk about that a lot. Where your assets, your plan is as given you the Confidence and peace of mind that I can go out and I could earn nothing. Maybe I earn a bit, maybe I do fractional work or part time consulting or a board position that isn’t, you know, demanding 60 hours a week from me and I can still stay engaged and I enjoy the work that I’m doing. That, that kind of is in a lot of ways the golden opportunity, right?
Richard Taylor:
[00:42:31 – 00:42:31]
100%.
James Boyle:
[00:42:31 – 00:42:31]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:42:31 – 00:43:44]
And I think there’s another opportunity as well. It’s not, it’s those who write this financial dependence that’s never having to work ever again and just relying on your assets. That’s great. But there is another stage that I think is underexplored and super powerful. And that is when you’re working, you’re saving and then you stop work and you immediately start drawing down on your assets to provide your lifestyle. You know, you’re immediately going from accumulation to decumulation and decumulation can weigh heavily on portfolios. If, however, I, I think people have always underestimated and I mean clients have always underestimated the power of what I’m about to explain. Accumulation, you’re making real good money, but you’re also saving loads and putting loads away for the future. Then they have this middle ground where you’re not doing that same job. You’re not making the big bucks to the extent that you were, but because you have some income from consultancy in inverted commas or a board position or something else, that’s enough for you to live on. You’re not savings. You don’t need to make as much money. You don’t need to put 100 grand, 200 grand a year away into, into retirement accounts or whatever. But you have enough money to live your life because you have this other income stream, but you’re not drawing down on your assets.
James Boyle:
[00:43:44 – 00:43:45]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:43:45 – 00:44:02]
So you can, you’ve saved 2, 3, 4, 5 million plus whatever for retirement and rather than immediately turn on the tap and start drawing that, you can leave that for another five years and just accumulates more and more and more. That breathing space can be super powerful. You can turn a non workable plan into a super workable plan.
James Boyle:
[00:44:02 – 00:44:02]
Yep.
Richard Taylor:
[00:44:02 – 00:44:12]
So if you’re in your 50s, you’re on that treadmill, you’re doing really well, but you’re like, I’m knackered. This is like, it’s too much. Because America, they do you guys do work hard.
James Boyle:
[00:44:12 – 00:44:13]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:44:13 – 00:44:31]
They, they want their pound of flesh. They pay you well, but they want their pound of flesh. But you’re not ready to retire completely and or your financial situation isn’t where you could retire immediately, there is a middle ground and that middle ground can, can save a plan completely save a pun.
James Boyle:
[00:44:31 – 00:45:53]
It’s enormously impactful. Maybe one of the most impactful levers, right, that we can pull or that a client can pull where you just outlined it. It’s doubly powerful because not only now do you have some income coming in that’s maybe sustaining your lifestyle while you’re working, but also it’s all those extra years of added growth, of added compounding. And we go back to the psychological aspect. Like you say these, these are, you know, hardworking, driven individuals. Sometimes that full stop directly into the accumulation can, can be frankly dangerous. There are cases, and certainly our clients have experienced this where they’re, they’re at loose ends, right? They’re kind of like, well, I went from this, you know, fulfilling career, solving problems and enjoying the interactions and the team I worked with and the kind of work I was doing to, to now nothing. Which is, which can be intimidating, right? And I don’t want to say that’s all cases, right? There’s plenty of cases where people are very content and happy in stepping away from work completely. But this kind of staged approach into retirement, right, the idea of going from that, you know, 60 hour a week, hopefully not for, for a lot of people listening but, but something that’s sustainable and you’re working hard into a kind of phased retirement where now you’re working part time or you work a few months a year.
Richard Taylor:
[00:45:55 – 00:45:56]
Or you know, you’re.
James Boyle:
[00:45:56 – 00:46:12]
Building something on, on your own a business or some kind of consulting business on your own. Going back to this idea of consultancy that can help smooth that transition into that kind of decumulation and fully sort of distributing from the assets and now stepping away fully from work.
Richard Taylor:
[00:46:12 – 00:46:17]
So get yourself back to listen to episode 77 folks. That’s why I was checking out there.
James Boyle:
[00:46:17 – 00:46:17]
Excellent.
Richard Taylor:
[00:46:17 – 00:46:51]
What’s he doing? Why is he answering emails? I’m talking episode 77, building a post retirement career. How expats can start crafting their portfolios. I was with Naomi Kent. She helps people do that. I think she’s a great resource. It’s not like don’t wait to preparation I think is critical here. I’d be happy to make introductions. I thought she was great. I thought it was a great episode. And I’m going to be talking to our clients and if you listen, I was actually had one of our joint clients in, we’d met with him the day before. Oh yes, I, I was I had him at that. I think, I think he’d be great on board.
James Boyle:
[00:46:51 – 00:46:51]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:46:51 – 00:47:52]
So we’re going to talk to him about that. Since then I met with Brian. For those who don’t know, I meet every month with Brian Dunhill and we, we get into like investments and economics and markets and what’s going on. So we talked about that. 78 Oil shocks, dollar moves and private debt. And then I don’t know if you’ve listened to this one yet, but I had a new. At first I had Manasseh Nadig on the, on the podcast. She is a cross border tax advisor, but she is of Indian heritage, born and bred in India I believe. And we did a deep dive on Indians coming to or in America. And I don’t think I’ve ever done. There’s a lot of generic cross border stuff. I don’t think I’ve ever done specific on, on another country other than the UK so. And there’s going to be much more of that now. Yeah, we’re going, we’ve expanded this beyond just a Brits in America podcast to cross border Americans overseas and other expats in America because it’s super interesting and I want to go there, frankly.
James Boyle:
[00:47:52 – 00:48:22]
It’s, it’s. I’m always happy to see the expansion of the umbrella. Right. This idea of cross border what was striking to me. I did listen to the episode. We love the work they’re doing over there. But mn tax just how much is. Is transferable. Right. Don’t get me wrong, there’s always going to be specifics for a country. But as an expat, no matter where you’re from, certainly if you’re us connected there are going to be. Yeah, I think you said 80, 20. Right. 80% Of what we do know and do in, in our, in our day jobs is directly applicable.
Richard Taylor:
[00:48:22 – 00:48:24]
And then you’ve got to learn. Right. So what’s their version of a sip?
James Boyle:
[00:48:24 – 00:48:25]
Right, right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:48:25 – 00:48:26]
The Providence Fund.
James Boyle:
[00:48:26 – 00:48:26]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:48:26 – 00:48:37]
Well, how do they treat the insurance? We have insurance products. They have insurance products. Yeah. That’s the specifics I want to get people on to talk about. But you’re absolutely right. 80% Of it is, is cross border generic stuff. You know, it’s transferable.
James Boyle:
[00:48:37 – 00:49:22]
Yeah. And it’s, it’s, you know, at the risk of getting too philosophical about it, I talk about this idea that it’s like a learning a language. I know you’re in your French lessons every week. When you learn a different system, you learn not only about that system obviously, but you also Learn so much more about your own. Right. So if it’s language, if you’re learning Spanish or French, you learn more about English. Studying another language than you than you would have ever learned just focused on English. It’s the exact same thing with these financial systems. Right. And with financial planning, a lot of it is transferable. There’s always specifics. But if you can expand your horizons a bit, it’s going to pay dividends in your own domestic investing. Right. Whether that’s in the US or back home in the UK or elsewhere. It’s pretty amazing.
Richard Taylor:
[00:49:23 – 00:49:31]
I agree and I totally agree by the way, about you learn more when you start learning a second language. Should we just do wrap up with pick and mix?
James Boyle:
[00:49:31 – 00:49:31]
Let’s do it.
Richard Taylor:
[00:49:31 – 00:49:35]
Pick a mix. So I’ll let you start. What are you watching? What are you reading?
James Boyle:
[00:49:35 – 00:49:36]
Let’s see.
Richard Taylor:
[00:49:36 – 00:49:37]
Worth sharing.
James Boyle:
[00:49:37 – 00:50:21]
Longtime listeners will know I have this fascination with. I don’t know what the actual term of these books is. I’d call them micro histories. Kind of like quirky little topics that an author takes a deep dive on. I would put Erik Larson in there. He’ll take one sort of event or happening and really kind of go into the weeds. He’s the best in my opinion. Or that I’ve read. But I read this book recently called the professor and the Madman. Arthur author is. Excuse me, Simon Winchester. It is about the making the creation of the Oxford English Dictionary of all things. Yeah. So 1800s, there had really never been a concise kind of collected volume of. Of the English language.
Richard Taylor:
[00:50:21 – 00:50:23]
One of those things that you just take totally for granted.
James Boyle:
[00:50:23 – 00:50:23]
Yes.
Richard Taylor:
[00:50:23 – 00:50:25]
Of course. It’s got interesting backstory.
James Boyle:
[00:50:25 – 00:50:33]
Yes. You know, it’. I’ll talk about something I watched recently. But. But Shakespeare. There was no dictionary. That’s what I was going to mention.
Richard Taylor:
[00:50:33 – 00:50:33]
- I’m not.
James Boyle:
[00:50:33 – 00:51:19]
You might want to steer clear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like to illustrate the point, when Shakespeare was writing, you know, I don’t know, dozens of those plays. Probably one of the best playwrights in American history. American English speaking history. We’re already trying to steal. That’s my American determinism coming out. He had no dictionary. Right. Like it just didn’t exist. The concept wasn’t there. So the multi decade journey of creating the Oxford English Dictionary, there’s all kinds of crazy characters involved. There’s a murder. There is something towards the end of the book that I’m not going to spoil in case anyone listens to it. But it is genuinely one of the most shocking things I’ve read in A book horrifying and shocking.
Richard Taylor:
[00:51:20 – 00:51:21]
Wow, that’s a big show.
James Boyle:
[00:51:21 – 00:51:48]
Yeah, yeah. Very well written. The author, I got the sense, really loves the English language and it’s appropriate that he’s writing a book about the dictionary because it’s a very flowery, flowery language, which sometimes rubs me the wrong way, but really. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Feels a little bit like he’s getting his own way, but I think that was maybe part of the style choice. But yes, that’s, that’s what I’ve been reading and fully, fully enjoyed it. Fully. Recommend.
Richard Taylor:
[00:51:48 – 00:51:51]
Man, I am reading Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World.
James Boyle:
[00:51:51 – 00:51:52]
Working there, I heard.
Richard Taylor:
[00:51:52 – 00:51:57]
I would recommend this be on a podcast. It’s a 20 year old book. It was recommended by Ed Elson actually on the.
James Boyle:
[00:51:57 – 00:51:58]
Oh, yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:51:58 – 00:52:30]
Recommend it on the Professor G Markets podcast. It’s a, it’s, it’s. It’s a book with his own Wikipedia page. I can see why. It’s one of those where we all. We’ve all heard of Genghis Khan, but you don’t really quite comprehend the scale of his conquests and the repercussions that we live with to this day. It’s kind of remarkable the what, what you achieved and, and, and what that results. I’m probably about halfway through. It’s just one of those books you. Everyone should read.
James Boyle:
[00:52:30 – 00:52:32]
It’s a. It’s a monster. Right? It’s a big.
Richard Taylor:
[00:52:32 – 00:52:33]
I don’t know, I can. I read everything.
James Boyle:
[00:52:34 – 00:52:39]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good. I should check that out. What’s the actual title?
Richard Taylor:
[00:52:39 – 00:52:49]
Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World. I’m watching. I’ve just finished watching The Night Manager 2. Second season of the Night Manager. Good. Not great good.
James Boyle:
[00:52:49 – 00:52:55]
I never, you know, I watched like one or two episodes of the original or the first year. Ten years ago, was it?
Richard Taylor:
[00:52:55 – 00:52:56]
Yes, ten years.
James Boyle:
[00:52:56 – 00:52:57]
I watched it on a plane.
Richard Taylor:
[00:52:57 – 00:53:07]
Ten years. Where does time go? It was. It was good. And Hugh Laurie is fantastic as always. Yeah, he’s just, he’s just a class act.
James Boyle:
[00:53:07 – 00:53:09]
Is this season based on another book?
Richard Taylor:
[00:53:09 – 00:53:17]
I don’t know. No, I suspect not, because I think the first season was based on the book. So I imagine. And now there’s gonna be. They’ve just set up a third season. I imagine we’re veering away from it. It’s. It’s good.
James Boyle:
[00:53:17 – 00:53:18]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:53:18 – 00:53:20]
It’s not great. I like it. Yeah.
James Boyle:
[00:53:20 – 00:53:21]
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:53:22 – 00:53:33]
And I’d say, you know, after our last podcast, I went. I’d listened to a couple of your recommendations. For the podcasts which were good. I particularly like the one where it’s a day in the life of what did you do?
James Boyle:
[00:53:33 – 00:53:34]
What did you do yesterday? Yes.
Richard Taylor:
[00:53:34 – 00:53:37]
Yeah, yeah, I listened to the Michelle Wolf one.
James Boyle:
[00:53:37 – 00:53:37]
Yes.
Richard Taylor:
[00:53:38 – 00:53:45]
I like that more than off menu. What I realized though is I can’t really listen to podcasts for entertainment.
James Boyle:
[00:53:45 – 00:53:46]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:53:46 – 00:54:05]
I need my podcast to be history or like new. There is. All my podcasts are either a history podcast or there are politics, current affairs, the daily, the. The. The. The rest is politics. The rest of politics us up first. I struggle to listen to like pure entertainment.
James Boyle:
[00:54:05 – 00:54:23]
Yeah, that’s funny. I think I probably listen to more. More entertainment podcasts than. Than. And part of it is I’m a very visual learner so it helps me to see like, you know, you now honestly, a lot of these podcasts are on YouTube. Certainly Prop G markets and compound our friends over there. It does help me to see the charts and things. It makes it a little bit more. Yeah, yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:54:23 – 00:54:24]
You ever listen to those?
James Boyle:
[00:54:24 – 00:54:25]
Really?
Richard Taylor:
[00:54:25 – 00:54:25]
Yeah.
James Boyle:
[00:54:26 – 00:54:32]
It’s funny when you, when you recommend podcast people, you feel a little vulnerable, you know. Is he going to like it?
Richard Taylor:
[00:54:32 – 00:54:33]
No, no. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah.
James Boyle:
[00:54:33 – 00:54:36]
Good. I’m glad you listened to them. Yeah, that was my entry.
Richard Taylor:
[00:54:36 – 00:54:44]
I think it’s an interesting insight into. To me as a. Yeah. As a person. Like I can’t. I. I will. I will scroll YouTube shorts.
James Boyle:
[00:54:44 – 00:54:45]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:54:45 – 00:54:57]
As good as the next person. I’m not on any other social media because I get stuck in it. I do love my Reddit though. Although I can get stuck in a hole there. But podcasts, I need. I. Unless I need there to be learning.
James Boyle:
[00:54:57 – 00:55:17]
Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. That’s good to know about yourself. Like. Yeah, my watch, I would say I’ll throw it hand because we, because we mentioned it. We went on a tear for the Oscars. I kind of think the Oscars and all that is so silly. But I also, I enjoy watching them and we try to watch, you know, some of the movies that are getting all the heat but I mean, incredible. I don’t think I need to dive into.
Richard Taylor:
[00:55:17 – 00:55:25]
I would like to watch that, but I’m not going to heard what happens and when you got young kids, you just. Stuff just hits differently.
James Boyle:
[00:55:25 – 00:55:35]
I don’t have any kids, so I was able to get through. But even that, it’s a harrowing one. Watch some incredible performances that Jesse Buckley won the best actress.
Richard Taylor:
[00:55:35 – 00:55:36]
She’s cool.
James Boyle:
[00:55:36 – 00:55:42]
She’s awesome. Yeah, she’s great. So yeah, that’s it. We’re kind of in the middle of a. Of a TV sort of gap.
Richard Taylor:
[00:55:43 – 00:55:45]
Yeah, we went. Have you ever watched the morning show?
James Boyle:
[00:55:45 – 00:55:47]
No. Is that the Steve Carell?
Richard Taylor:
[00:55:47 – 00:55:57]
No, I’d watch anything with Steve Carell. Oh, yeah. No, it was. Yeah. And that was great. Season one, Season two was good. Season Season three, I think it’s jumped the shark as an American.
James Boyle:
[00:55:58 – 00:55:59]
So it happened a lot.
Richard Taylor:
[00:55:59 – 00:55:59]
It just needs to stop.
James Boyle:
[00:55:59 – 00:56:00]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:56:00 – 00:56:01]
We didn’t even finish the last season.
James Boyle:
[00:56:01 – 00:56:02]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:56:02 – 00:56:32]
Right. Okay, my friend, that. That’s a wrap. We need to get to the pub. Yes, we are going to. We’ve found some very good Guinness in the city now that. Yes, we’re not going to say where because I think people are killers. But we. We’ve got to go and have lunch in a couple of. A couple of Guinness now. So thanks everyone for tuning in. As always, if you’re that way inclined, leave us a review and a rating. It really helps. We appreciate you as always and we’ll see you soon.
James Boyle:
[00:56:32 – 00:56:34]
Excited to head into Q2 and the rest of the year.
Richard Taylor:
[00:56:34 – 00:56:34]
Let’s do it.
James Boyle:
[00:56:34 – 00:56:35]
Thanks all. Cheers.
Richard Taylor:
[00:56:35 – 00:57:34]
Bye. All right folks, that’s another episode of Expat wealth under our belts. Thank you for listening. I appreciate it and I appreciate you. If you’re enjoying the show, a would like to support the mission which is to help ambitious expats thrive in America and ask you to subscribe to the POD wherever you listen and also consider leaving a rating and review. This stuff really does matter. Please help us get this information to the people who need it, that is to your fellow expats. Just a quick reminder that this show is brought to you by Plan First Wealth. We are a US based financial planner and wealth manager and we help successful amounts American and international families living across the US to make the most of their opportunity and ultimately to retire happier. If you’d like to know more about how we might be able to help you, you can find us on our website, www.planfirstwealth.com or you can look me up on LinkedIn. Do get in touch. We’d love to hear from you. As always, thank you to the podcast guys for their help producing this episode and the entire show. See you next week.
Production