Finding Peace in Uncertainty | What Two Cancer Diagnoses Taught Keith Hunt (We’re The Brits In America S1:E41)

In the UK, the five-year survival rate for pancreatic cancer is 7.3%. In the US, it’s 13%.

This is a very special episode of Always An Expat, and a slight departure from the usual format, but it’s an important story to tell. Keith Hunt, a Scottish-born geophysicist, was working for Shell when, in 2022, he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. It was detected early, in part due to his proactive approach influenced by his family’s medical history, and the efficiency of the US healthcare system. After treatment in the US he won the battle, but then the second sucker punch hit him – a diagnosis of brain cancer, unrelated to his pancreatic cancer.

Richard Taylor talks to Keith about this experience, the remarkable resilience he’s shown and how the past few years have shaped his perspective on being an expat. People talk a lot about the US healthcare system, and it’s not without its faults. But despite the costs there’s no doubt it provided Keith live-saving care. Would the same be true in the UK with the NHS?

This is a must listen for any expat. “I am here today because we came to the US,” says Keith.

We’re the Brits in America is affiliated with Plan First Wealth LLC, an SEC-registered investment advisor. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Plan First Wealth.

Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial adviser and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Plan First Wealth does not provide any tax and/or legal advice and strongly recommends that listeners seek their own advice in these areas.

About Richard

Richard Taylor is a British expat, dual citizen (UK & US). Originally from Bolton, he now lives in Greenwich, CT, where Plan First Wealth has its head office.

As the firm’s leader, Richard launched Taylor & Taylor, now Plan First Wealth, and continues to fuel the firm’s growth. Richard is a Chartered Financial Planner (UK – CII) in addition to holding the IMC (CFA UK) and Series 65 (US – FINRA).

Connect with Richard on LinkedIn

About Keith

Keith Hunt is the SME and Global Manager for Geophysical Operations at Shell.

With over 30 years of EP industry experience, he has led high-risk seismic operations, innovative projects, and global geophysical teams at Shell, fostering inclusivity, mentorship, and psychological safety while driving the company’s subsurface success and reputation.

Connect with Keith on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Keith:

[00:00:03 – 00:00:14]

I can almost put my finger on the point where both my wife and I said this is home and you know, America is a wonderful place and my views have definitely changed on America from what they were prior to living here.

Richard:

[00:00:15 – 00:02:50]

Welcome to the we’re the Brits in America podcast, a Plan First Wealth podcast dedicated to helping ambitious expatriates and first generation immigrants thrive in America.

I’m your host Richard Taylor and Plan First Wealth is the business I founded and run today, and we work with successful American and international families living across the US helping them to make the most of their opportunity living and working in America.

However, while Plan First Wealth LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views and positions of Plan First Wealth. Information presented is for educational purposes only.

Alright, let’s get back to this week’s show.

Welcome back to We’re The Brits In America. Today folks, for the first time in a long time I have an Always An Expat conversation for you. This is when I invite a fellow expat on who I think has a relevant and interesting story to share. Not necessarily someone with cross border technical expertise, but lots of expat life experiences of the sort that I’m sure you will recognize. My guest today is Keith Hunt. Keith is a fellow Brit, Scottish to be exact, and longtime Shell employee who has lived across the world with the last 10 years or so in the US. But what’s unique about Keith is his recent and ongoing battles of cancer. Yes, that’s plural. First pancreatic and now brain, but more specifically his response to these challenges and his reflections as a result. Keith first came to my attention when I saw a post on LinkedIn where he was reflecting on a life of worry and stress about everything that we all worry and stress about, only to be blindsided by pancreatic cancer and the liberation it gave him. On the other side. He exhorted readers to embrace their lives, to live their lives, and this resonated with me strongly. I am as guilty as the rest of us for worrying and stressing about everything and nothing, and one of my core messages to anyone who will listen is one life. We get one shot at this. This is not a dress rehearsal. Precious time is slipping away and people need to stop taking their time and health for granted and to get on living deliberately and stop acting like they have all the time in the world because we don’t. And I think this message is even more important in America where it’s so Easy to get sucked into the culture of work, work, work, to buy more, more, more. Well, since then, not only has Keith had to face some more battles head on, but he’s been reflecting on expat life. And I think he has some really, really critically important messages that deserve a wide audience. And so I asked him to come on our podcast and share his experiences, reflections, and insights. So without further ado, let’s get into this. Hi, Keith. Welcome to we’re the Brits in America podcast.

Keith:

[00:02:50 – 00:02:55]

Good morning, Richard. Thank you very much for having me here. It’s a pleasure to speak with you this morning.

Richard:

[00:02:55 – 00:03:10]

I’m excited to get into this conversation. As you know, I’ve been. You and I have been messaging for a while. I think you’ve got a really, really important, valuable message to share. So thank you for coming on and being willing to share it with us. If I can start, can I ask you to tell us about your journey?

Keith:

[00:03:10 – 00:03:12]

Where do you want me to start with the journey? Do you want me to start sort of?

Richard:

[00:03:12 – 00:03:17]

No, tell the origin story. Let’s get the abridged version.

Keith:

[00:03:17 – 00:06:41]

The abridged version. Okay. That’s an intro. Let me see. So, proud Scotsman, proud to be British as well. Grew up in Aberdeen in Troon in Scotland. Graduated with a degree in petroleum geology in. When would that have been now? That would have been about 1989. Moved to Mexico for a couple of years, worked out of there. Always wanted to get ahead in life, always thoroughly enjoyed the job that I was doing, but wanted to improve myself and do better. And I went back to university, did a master’s in exploration geophysics at Imperial, that would have been in 1994. And then moved to Norwich. And I met my wife at the time that would have been in 1995. Was working for a small company there, Offshore. We were doing site investigations, geophysical surveys. Then I was lucky enough to be offered a job with Shell, and that was in 1998, down in London in the exploration team, as it was at that time. We lived in London for a while, then we moved up to Aberdeen. Lived in Aberdeen for a further 10 years where we had our three children. And in 2008, we were offered a position with Shell over in the Middle east in Oman. And I worked in Oman for six years there in a geophysical acquisition team working in the deserts around a man, which I thoroughly enjoyed. And then we had quite a few issues, I would say, with one of our children in particular, around mental health. We realized that she was struggling as a youngster around about the age 6, she started to exhibit signs of autism disorder, which continued to get worse and we could not find any local support. We were trying to get support in Dubai and we flew back to England to try and get help, but things were getting worse and it was putting a lot of stress on the family, so we decided to move back to the UK. Now, that would have been 2014. And when I started to investigate specific healthcare services around autism disorders in the uk, I found it would be very difficult and expensive for us to get the support we required. And I knew in America we could get the help. So I spoke to Shell, Fantastic company is always, and asked if I could come and work in America, and they said absolutely. A position was made available for me in Houston. In 2014, we moved here and we got the fantastic support and help that we needed to get for my middle daughter. My other kids were also struggling around that time, and we got help and support for them and we’ve lived here ever since. Life for us has been fantastic. Unfortunately, in 2022, I was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. It was reasonably far advanced at that time. I had a 5 centimeter adenocarcinoma in the tail end of my pancreas. We immediately went to MD Anderson in Houston and I got fantastic support from the doctors and the support staff there. I had six months of full Furonox chemotherapy, which I understand is the toughest chemotherapy that you can get, which was really, really hard. And then after that, I had surgery in March 2023 to remove the tumor, which was a great success. There’s been no reoccurrence of pancreatic cancer whatsoever.

Richard:

[00:06:41 – 00:06:51]

That’s. That’s quite remarkable. I mean, that’s a really good outcome for where you were at with it. Right. Like to have seemingly completely eradicated. It’s quite.

Keith:

[00:06:51 – 00:07:41]

Well, the likelihood of survival after five years within America is 13%. It’s been static at 13% for a couple of years now, and globally it’s worse. In the UK, I understand it’s about 8%, something like that. I’ve always been fit and healthy and taking care of myself, been careful what I eat, et cetera. And that had a lot to do with my survival and the fact that there was zero spread. There was nothing in the lymph nodes. They took 27 lymph nodes out and examined them and there was zero spread. So I have been incredibly lucky, not only with MD Anderson and the doctors and the specialists there, but my wife and my family and my support network here who carried us and Held us throughout that period. I was incredibly fortunate and very glad to have survived that. Yeah.

Richard:

[00:07:41 – 00:07:46]

How was it identified, Keith? Were you feeling something or was it a routine test checkup?

Keith:

[00:07:46 – 00:08:44]

Yeah. So my dad, unfortunately passed away from pancreatic cancer a few years back, and my brother was diagnosed with bowel cancer. And I had a bit of a pain, not much, but a bit of a pain in my side. And I called the doctor and said, a bit of a pain. And the doctor said, I’m too busy to see just now, but go and get a scan and we’ll have a look at it. I was thinking, well, by that time the scan. When the scan was due, the pain had actually disappeared. So I thought, I’m not going to go. But then I thought, well, my brother’s just been diagnosed. I’ve got the opportunity of a scan. Let’s go and do it. I had the scan within two hours. The phone went and it was the doctor. And I knew it wasn’t good as soon as the sue saw his name and he said, there’s something on your pancreas. We have to do a biopsy. So, you know, that was it. I knew then and there, because of my. My father’s experience, that the news wasn’t good. So within five days, I had a biopsy and a diagnosis of pancreatic distal distal adenocarcinoma. And we had to take action.

Richard:

[00:08:44 – 00:08:45]

Wow.

Keith:

[00:08:45 – 00:08:46]

Wow.

Richard:

[00:08:46 – 00:08:50]

Yeah. I wonder if you didn’t have that history in the family, you might well have cancelled it.

Keith:

[00:08:50 – 00:09:31]

Well, it was on my mind because the pain went away. And so I just. And I, you know, I get pains and gripes now and again around the torso area, and I thought it’s nothing, but really, it was the fact that my brother had recently been diagnosed with bowel cancer. He’s doing fine now, by the way. Thankfully, that prompted me to get it. And it was right down to the wire. But 15 minutes before the scan, I was thinking, I’m not going to go. And then I thought, nope, I’ve got to go and get this done. Had I not got the scan done, the likelihood is I would not be sitting here today. So thank you, Derek Hunt, my big brother, for. I shouldn’t say that for having cancer, but, you know, it was him that prompted me to go ahead with the scan.

Richard:

[00:09:31 – 00:09:43]

Okay, so you took on pancreatic cancer, and at this stage, you seem to be, is it safe to say, winning that battle? I know things can change, but, you know, right as we stand now, I’m.

Keith:

[00:09:43 – 00:13:23]

Winning the battle, Richard. That’s good. Now, the doctors see the two year milestone as very important and I’ve got the two year milestone in just over a month. So once I hit that, then my chances of survival go up significantly. So for five year survival and there’s been zero spread, my bloods are good, the scans are all great from the pancreatic side. So I am winning the battle of pancreatic cancer to the point that I do not even think about it anymore. So let me see. Just after Thanksgiving, we were on vacation with good friends in the hill country in Texas here. We had a wonderful time with them. And driving back, I had a brain seizure. Never experienced anything like it before. It felt like I was hit over the forehead with a cricket bat and then extreme nausea. I was driving at the time and I went into some form of lucidity. I would describe it. I could not see the reality around me. And I was at the wheel of the car and I had enough sense to slow down and my wife was trying to contact me and couldn’t get through and she grabbed the wheel, pulled into the side of the road and slammed the car into park. And we came to, she couldn’t reach me. Phoned an ambulance. They thought I was having a stroke and then they thought it was something more serious than a stroke. So they sent me straight to hospital and they found a mass in my head. After they did a CT scan, I was there for two days and then I had to go back to MD Anderson. They were fantastic. Tina, my wife, was on the phone to them throughout and they were saying, just get him here, we need to get him back to MD Anderson. And they discovered a 2cm tumor on the right hand side temporal lobe by the skull, which was cancer. Unfortunately, it’s the G word, geoblastoma, which we don’t see in the house. It’s a malignant form of cancer. But I was very fortunate that they, through surgery on the 18th of December, they removed the whole thing. The surgeon, Dr. Weinberger, was very pleased with the results of the surgery. Got everything out and I’ve now entered radiotherapy and chemotherapy. I’m a little more than a week in on that, but again, the doctors say I’ve got a very good chance of longevity as I’m relatively young, I’m 56, I’m healthy, I’m fit. The tumor was very small, they caught it very early and the seizure was caused by swelling around the tumour. For whatever reason, I was very lucky and fortunate to have that episode, otherwise it would still be growing in my head and we wouldn’t have identified it. So, yeah. So, you know, second time around for me with terminal cancer, unless if it’s left untreated, but unfortunately, I’m getting the best treatment in the world. It’s funny, you know, Richard, the second time you’re given a diagnosis of significant cancer, I kind of took it my stride this time. You know, I thought, well, I don’t mean to sound trite, but I kind of thought, well, I’ve been down this road before and I’ve beaten it. I know my support network is here. I’m at the best hospital in the world. I’ve got the best care in the world. The doctors did a fantastic job. I really don’t think about it. I think about staying strong and healthy through my therapy. I think about taking it super easy. Just now, my company have been fantastic and said to me, just stay away until you’re fit and healthy. So they’re really in my corner here. And as my wife and my good friends and family are. So I honestly don’t think about it. I think about relaxing, recuperating, and looking after myself for once. I spend my life looking after other people, but I’m looking after myself for once.

Richard:

[00:13:24 – 00:13:26]

That is a one, two punch, though, isn’t it? Crikey.

Keith:

[00:13:27 – 00:14:44]

I’m still standing, Richard, you know, and it’s kind of bizarre. I almost have an excitement in my heart about life and dealing with this. You know, I think I get that. That from my father. My father was a very strong individual and he had a tough life, but he never really showed any signs of weakness and was always positive. And my mother also always showed. She always looked for the best in people, no matter the situation. My mother always saw the best in people and was always very positive. And I have them to thank for my joy in life and the way I see things. And I think, honestly, that helps me significantly. And also my wife describes it almost as a spiritual journey that we’ve been undertaking. And we do a lot of meditation, we do a lot of exercise, we do a lot of walking. We are influenced by a lot of positive speakers and people who believe that you can heal a lot of ills with your mindset and your personal practices. And it’s something that we’ve grown into. We never set it as a goal, but we’ve definitely grown into these sort of practices as life has evolved for us in an unexpected way.

Richard:

[00:14:45 – 00:15:26]

That’s absolutely part of it. Some people might roll their eyes and think, oh, you know, it sounds a bit wishy washy but it’s not, it’s a, you know, you’re absolutely not abandoning medicine and replacing it with meditation. No, it’s, it’s, it’s augmenting, it’s, it’s adding these things. Yeah. I think you see how that, that kind of thing permeates the rest of your life as well. It’s almost a cliche for me to say, has it changed your perspective? How could it not? But how has this journey like been for you from a mental kind of strength perspective, but also from a how you think about life and living and, and you know, both going forward and even when you reflect on your past, does it, has it caused you to reevaluate in any way?

Keith:

[00:15:26 – 00:20:22]

As I say, so it’s a process. And your life’s goals change as you grow and you mature and you, you start to tap into some wisdom that you have been lucky enough to learn along the way. You know, as a youngster I was really pretty hedonistic, as I think we all were, and lived a very selfish life filled with enjoyment and scraping by, an education, to be brutally honest. And then that, that evolves into work ethics and setting goals around material things in life, you know, and travel and family. And then when you start a family, you real the weight of responsibility and accountability you have for these individuals. And so you grow and develop into looking after and doing your absolute utmost at all times for your children to ensure they have the best chance in life and that, that never changes. And then you realize as you get older, your health develops in an unplanned way. None of this was expected. You know, you don’t wake up in the morning thinking, well, this is the day I’m going to be given a cancer diagnosis, you know. So the spiritual journey that we grew into was not in any way set as a goal. I wouldn’t classify myself as an atheist, but I certainly, I believe more in the universe. And I know that sounds a bit wishy washy in mother Nature and things like that rather than an overarching spirit that guides us, et cetera, but the way that it has changed me is when I was first diagnosed with cancer, with a pancreatic cancer, it hit me super hard and I hit depression very hard. But I spoke to an individual who was a 12 year survivor and it was magical to talk to him. And it gave me real hope and belief in the possibility that I might just make it. And from that moment on I decided that I wanted to do as much as I could to help other people who were In a similar. We were in a similar predicament. And I started to talk about my situation and how I feel and what I’ve come through. And I started to realize that people were saying to me, you’re inspirational. What you’re saying is where I want to be, I want to get there. And I was saying, well, you don’t want to follow my path, but all I can say is think about your own situation and what worries you, what concerns you. Are they real concerns? Are you doing the best you can for your health? Are you keeping your mind at rest when you can? Is your work life balance at an acceptable level? Are you seeing the doctor when you have any ailments? These are important things in life that you have to take care of, because if you don’t, you’re going to fall into a similar situation that I fell into. Now, what I find now that gives me satisfaction, fulfillment, is reaching out to people who are in a similar situation than I as I and their carers as well. And I talk to many, many people who have pancreatic cancers and other cancers and try to give them hope and a belief in themselves that they can potentially make this. If they lean into the doctors, if they look after their own heads, let the doctors look after their bodies, there’s a chance that they could get through. So I talk to a lot of people. Unfortunately, some of these people don’t make it, and some of them are really struggling. But I can offer them some advice to try and give them some peace. It’s certainly not in a religious way, but more leaning into the friends and family, telling them how they feel, telling others their story. Try and bring awareness to people out there who don’t fully understand the struggles that people like I and my wife and my family go through and just try and find some peace. So. And that gives me satisfaction and knowledge that I’m helping them in a way that this guy helped me when I was first diagnosed. So I find that I reach out to people. I’m meeting another lady next Monday whose husband is in a similar predicament as I was. So my life has changed in that respect. And I have a sense of kind of peace and fulfillment and contentment, which I’ve never had before, and a sense of home as well. We’ve lived in the US now for 12 years, and we’ve always seen this as a longer stopping point that will eventually come back to the uk. But it’s a feeling of contentment and home that came over my wife and I when we, When I was diagnosed with the brain cancer. I can’t fully explain it, but we just saw the house very, very differently, and it turned into a home. And we see it through different eyes. We see our neighbors and friends here through different eyes, and we see our whole environment through different eyes as home now. So it’s changed me significantly as a person. That’s a hell of a long answer, Richard. I’m sorry that I take so long.

Richard:

[00:20:22 – 00:21:31]

And Muffin, I want to come back to the home piece because I think that’s so interlinked with being an expat in a way that expats will understand, and a lot of people might not. But the p you meant, you say it seems almost ironic that you go through something as major as what you’ve been through and you come out of it with a sense of peace outside a depressive period, because I imagine that wasn’t particularly peaceful. But having gone through that process to come out and still be living in uncertainty, but to say you feel more at peace, that’s quite a remarkable thing. I’m in the thick of it now with young kids, and I really. When you were talking about the responsibility and the pressures, I’m. I’m feeling that I’m not always feeling particularly at peace. And I work with people who are. Who are at different, you know, life stages. And I recognize we spend so much of our time worrying, stressing, not at peace. I want to find that for me and help other people find it. So it’s very interesting to hear that you had to go through something like that to find peace. And I wonder, is there a way to. Is there a way for other people, too, to learn from your experiences without having to necessarily go through something as traumatic as what you’ve. Going through, you’ve been through?

Keith:

[00:21:31 – 00:24:24]

That’s a really good question, Richard. I think I would tie that back to what you said at the introduction in that we only get one life. And like everybody else, I have, I wouldn’t say struggled, but I’ve always fought for the best that I can do at work, and I’ve always put my hand up when promotions came along or I felt there was an opening that came along that would suit me. And I’ve put my hand up and said, look, I’m here, and I would like a chance at that. And I shot at that. So I’ve always really pushed myself. And my wife Tina has always said, relax a little bit. You know, you kind of let work bleed into your home life, and you need to take a step back and you Know, I listen to her and I do for a while, but then I always really kind of get back into work and I have a very busy job. I’m in operations and we. I’ve got a global role, we’ve got operations going on all over the world that I have to keep on top of now. More recently, we went through some changes within Shell and I was very fortunate to get a promotion. And also I have a fantastic team of physicists that work for me and I’m very safe in the knowledge that these highly capable, competent, intelligent individuals can do their jobs to a very successful degree. And it has made my life easier in that I can take a little bit of a step back and not be in such a sort of a controlling role, if you like, and just let them grow into their own skill sets. And that has freed up my time and freed up my. My sense of ownership to a certain extent, in allowing them the responsibility to do their own jobs, which has been fundamental to me in relaxing somewhat now, that has definitely helped in terms of my work and the time that I spend at work. But also I’m at the age now, at 56, where I feel that I have achieved everything that I wanted to achieve, both in work and in family as well. My kids have grown up. I have a 23, a 20 and a 17 year old. My two oldest kids are at university in the UK and doing very well. My middle daughter, who was diagnosed with autism at an early age through the help and support that we got in the us, she had to go to a school where she stayed away for a couple of years and then she went to a fantastic school here in Houston also to get support. She’s now living away from home in a situation that we never thought possible. But she has come on so well that she’s independent and thriving at university. And my youngest, my son, who’s 17, has been offered three university places in the UK of his choice.

Richard:

[00:24:24 – 00:24:37]

Keith, your middle daughter, your middle daughter who was diagnosed with autism, serious enough that you moved to the US to get care for her. Is she now at college on her own in the uk? That’s amazing.

Keith:

[00:24:37 – 00:25:47]

It’s incredible. Now, we went from a situation where I felt hopeless, Richard, and I can’t explain how that feels. When my wife and I were convinced that Florence would probably be incarcerated for her life because she could not function even within the confines of a family environment, and we decided to come to America to get help and support rather than the uk, we got the help and support and through her own recognition of self and the care and attention of others. She is able to identify how she fits in. She’s able to identify. She’s able to read people, facial expressions, intent. She still doesn’t get humor a lot of the time, which we have a lot of fun with at home. And she’s now living by herself. And it’s the most amazing, wonderful thing. And it fills me with absolute pride to see because she also has a mass of friends that are. That really look to her. And she’s almost like the glue that holds the friendship circle together. She’s achieved this through her own hard work and realization of self. It’s incredible to see. So she’s doing extremely well. So, yeah.

Richard:

[00:25:47 – 00:26:11]

Is it fair to say you’re only in the US because of Florence and to get the help she. Which is amazing. You know, the fact that just the way our life. For expats, where we end up and the reasons we end up is. It’s fascinating. So you’re only in the US because. Because of the care you were looking for for Florence. And also you said before if you hadn’t been in the US and received the treatment you had, you don’t think you’d be here.

Keith:

[00:26:12 – 00:27:18]

That’s correct. And, you know, Florence talks a little. She doesn’t share a lot of emotion, but she talks a little, a little at times about the guilt that she feels and the impact that she had on. On the family. You know, it was highly destructive at times and we managed to pull through. But I explained to her this Christmas that we came to the US for help for her. But, you know, you can talk about fate and stuff like that, but there is perhaps a bigger reason in that. I am here today because we came to the us we have a very close friend who’s a doctor in the uk, and she said to me, if we had stayed in the uk, I probably would not have survived because of how pancreatic cancer is treated in terms of early diagnosis in the uk, it would probably not have been identified and been identified at a very late stage, probably too late for my survival. And I’ve explained that to Florence that there is a bigger reason why we came here. Not just because of her, but because of me as well. And she understands that.

Richard:

[00:27:18 – 00:27:46]

You know, it’s such a cliche to say everything happens for a reason, and I don’t believe it does. You know, it’s just such a. But a lot of the time it does feel like it does happen for a reason. I used to say when I was. When I was Far too young to be thinking about things properly. I used to think to be okay in the end, if things aren’t okay, it’s not the end yet. I used to say that as a teenager and I recognize now that’s kind of. You’re basically saying things happen for a reason and you don’t know. I’m much better at saying these things and actually living them day to day. I’m very guilty of getting stressed and stressed out and worked up.

Keith:

[00:27:46 – 00:27:49]

Richard, would you. Would you go so far as to say that was fate?

Richard:

[00:27:49 – 00:28:39]

I truly don’t know because like you, I believe more in the universe than a creator directing it all. But it does feel like that sometimes. You know, you talk about not surviving the uk, you just. Because obviously, if anyone’s listening from the UK or outside the us, the US healthcare system gets a load of stick. Some of it deserved, but. But I don’t think people see the other side of it, which is the level of care you can receive here is outstanding. And, you know, you mentioned at the very beginning your doctor said, I can’t see you right now, but go and get a scan. And you went and got a scan. That’s one of the things that happens here. You need a scan, you get a scan pretty damn quickly. I remember having to have an MRI in the UK and it took forever and the hoops you had to jump through and it was a disaster. And it seems like that, I mean, that’s just one tiny little part of the jigsaw, but it’s an important part of the jigsaw.

Keith:

[00:28:40 – 00:30:48]

Absolutely. Richard, I’m in touch with a chap just now called Lee Rawlinson. He popped up on LinkedIn, an article that appeared in the UK press. Lee had pains in January 2024, and he went to the hospital, he went to the doctor’s er, and I think he probably was given paracetamol and told to go away. He was back at hospital and eventually turned up at ER for the third time in October 2024. So we’re talking nine, 10 months after the initial symptoms. And they diagnosed him with terminal pancreatic cancer. Now, that hit me to my very core. And I reached out to Lee and I talked with Lee on a weekly basis, and I’m devastated for him because had he lived in the us, the chances are that he would have a full life, at least a longer life than what he’s been given. And I was just so hurt to read his story now. So my wife, and I’m always an artist, she decided to paint some pictures and sell them and provide the money to Pancreatic Cancer uk, which we’re doing really to honor Lee. And I want to get to the point where I’ve got a call with Pancreatic Cancer UK and NHS England as well, to see how we can potentially tie up some of the really good aspects of the US health system in terms of early diagnosis and blood tests and scans to prevent the atrocities that happen on a daily basis to people like Lee Rawlinson. So, you know, I’m trying to help out in that way as well to see if there’s anything we can do that we can adopt more of the US model for the people who pay for the NHS system, which is not servicing them properly when they need early detection for things like pancreatic cancer, which I understand is the third highest cancer for fatality, just down globally. And it’s growing as well. The amount of pancreatic cancer diagnosis is increasing every day.

Richard:

[00:30:48 – 00:30:56]

For the UK or elsewhere to adopt that is a fundamental switch. It’s a fundamental switch, yeah.

Keith:

[00:30:57 – 00:32:47]

The NHS is probably properly funded. It’s just how it’s administered, I think is part of the issue. Now, private healthcare is available through companies like BUPA and Cigna etc in the uk, but I’m not sure how available it is to people in rural settings or outside, you know, places like London or big cities or whatever, you know, which, which limits your choice. But I think somebody has to have a cold eye look at the NHS in comparison to the very positive aspects of the US and parts of Canada as well. And I think that fundamental switch can only be a good thing. And maybe we have to pay a little bit more for it in the uk, but you can’t put a price on life. You know, people like Lee Rawlinson wasn’t given that choice. I’m sure if he had the option to pay a bit more, he would have taken that, right, as many of us would. So, yeah, I think a long cold eye look at it is definitely required. We know that things change through time. Things evolve, they adapt to the environment and that’s how businesses work. My company does this every four years. We adapt to the changing landscape. When was the last time the NHS changed and evolved? You know, Covid should have been a wake up call, but I don’t think it really was. When I see the waiting list and I see the fact that doctors have just been issued in the UK with guidance on how to treat patients in corridors, for fuck’s sake. I mean, what kind of land are we living in at the End of the day, right. The nhs, I firmly believe, has to adapt to the changing environment that it finds itself in. Otherwise we are not going to increase things like the statistics on pancreatic survivability after five years.

Richard:

[00:32:47 – 00:33:42]

I feel that what I’m about to say might rub some people up the wrong way, but this is my experience and I can only speak from my experience. Forget the level of care for a second. The way I was treated, the way I was made to feel going into care or hospital in the UK versus the US was radically different. It’s like the difference in a greeting you get when you go to a restaurant, UK versus us. In the uk, frankly, I was made to feel like an inconvenience, like a bother, whereas in the. In the us, the way I was made to feel, I had the same thing happen. I ruptured Achilles in the uk. Ruptured Achilles in the us, and the level of care and. And the service and the way I was made to feel could not have been more different. The rest of the world likes to Islam on the US healthcare system and I get. I get it. Medical debt is a real thing. We’re getting letters from Aetna daily because my son had a procedure last year and I’ve got my own things going on, on. But, you know, when you. We’re talking about your health here and it makes a difference.

Keith:

[00:33:42 – 00:35:11]

Absolutely. Now, you know, again, my brother was treated very successfully for bowel cancer very quickly. My parents. My mother died of Alzheimer’s, my dad died of pancreatic cancer. They were looked after very well and I had zero complaints whatsoever. So there’s probably pockets of excellence throughout the uk, but, you know, when you look at the overall statistics, that doesn’t highlight the pockets. Right, Yeah. I completely agree with you that the US is phenomenal in terms of its care of the individual. And they see individuals, they don’t necessarily see the statistics. And, you know, a lot of people say, well, you have to pay for it in the us, but the point is, we live in a capitalist society, right? You work hard, then you earn the right to have that privilege, and we shouldn’t be ashamed of that. At the end of the day, I work my socks off. The amount of tax that I’ve paid to the UK and the US is frightening. Right? And that tax goes to pay for the benefit of everybody else within these countries. So the point is that if you work hard and you’ve got a good work ethic, then, yeah, you can have that privilege. There’s nothing stopping you there’s nothing stopping you coming to the US if you want to do that. There’s nothing stopping you from working hard and paying for private healthcare in the UK also. So, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s not a privilege for the rich, it’s a privilege for everybody living in a capitalist society that wants to do well.

Richard:

[00:35:11 – 00:35:58]

He mentioned before, this experience has also changed your perception of home, which is really interesting because for expats, you never this, this, this concept of home is such a nebulous concept. You’re never quite sure. Even when you’re sure, you’re never quite sure where do you belong. And then when you go back, quote, unquote home, after you’ve been away for a long time, you realize, oh, you know what? I don’t quite belong here now either. And it’s a, it’s a liberating, unmooring, exciting, sometimes lonely, all the above. And that’s neither good nor bad. But very interesting to me that you said this experience basically crystallized. Home is where we are right now. So tell us a bit more about that.

Keith:

[00:35:58 – 00:36:40]

You know, I can almost put my finger on the point where both my wife and I said, this is home. And when I was diagnosed with the brain cancer, we called both our kids in the UK who were at college, and they said, we want to come home now. We had flights booked for them just before Christmas, and they said, we want to come home now. So we flew them both back immediately. We had a lot of fun and chats and everything. And then we were sitting outside at nighttime on Christmas Eve in the back garden and we had the fire pit on and we were having a drink and things. And one of the kids said, let’s go around and tell each other what we love about each other and what we’re grateful for for each other.

Richard:

[00:36:40 – 00:36:42]

One of your kids said this?

Keith:

[00:36:42 – 00:37:30]

One of my kids said it, yeah. It’s a very American thing. It’s very like, it’s like Thanksgiving. You know, Thanksgiving is a wonderful celebration that Americans have, and it’s all about family and love and gratefulness and things like that. So one of the kids said, let’s do it. You know, it’s Christmas Eve and we’ve got a tradition in the family that we buy all the kids pajamas. So we bought them all these pink pajamas. So the three of them were sitting there in their pink pajamas and my eldest boyfriend was sitting there in his pink pajamas as well. And it was quite a funny scene, but she said, yeah, let’s go around and you know, it was such a, we’d never had a bonding moment like it before. We’re a very tight knit, strong family. You know, we absolutely adore each other, but it bonded us and it secured that family feeling for us in our home that we went around.

Richard:

[00:37:30 – 00:37:54]

It’s amazing, isn’t it, that when you, when you find your place, how meaningful that is, wherever it is, how meaningful that really is. I’m projecting a little bit here, but I imagine prior to this you had maybe conversations about should we, will we go back to the uk? Will we do this, will we do that and have those now abated and it’s just like, no, no, this, this is where we’re at, this is home. We’re here for the foreseeable.

Keith:

[00:37:54 – 00:38:33]

Yeah, definitely. And we’re lucky enough to have an apartment in the UK that we, we visit there frequently and we kind of bought it as a retirement apartment from, for my wife and I. We love it. It’s in Burson Edmonds and we go back there regularly and we always hummed and hawed about what do we do? Do we go back to the UK for good and then keep an apartment here in the us we always humm about that but since Christmas time we haven’t had those conversations. It’s just like, no, this is home. And you know, we see ourselves retiring here and, and living here and it’s, it’s, it’s a very sort of definitive good feeling to, to feel that way.

Richard:

[00:38:33 – 00:39:16]

Yeah, I, I can, I can well imagine because I, I wrestle a lot with dreaming, fantasizing, thinking about other lives and just having that kind of certainty and that feeling of belonging, I can imagine is a relief. Keith, thank you so much for coming, sharing your story, sharing these messages, these are the I, I hope not everyone has to go through two rounds fighting without with cancer to have some of the realizations. I hope people can benefit from your experiences and your reflections. I know you’ve got some treatment coming up and they’ve got a road ahead of you, so I wish you the absolute very best of luck and I’m really grateful for you coming in and sharing your story with myself and everyone who listens. So thank you.

Keith:

[00:39:16 – 00:39:47]

Thank you, Richard. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you. I hope that our conversation touches a few people and perhaps even changes their views about America and American healthcare in particular. You know, America is a wonderful place. It’s been the salvation for us and my views have definitely changed on America from what they were prior to living here. And it’s a wonderful land of opportunity. If you’re prepared to, to take a risk and get yourself over here. So thank you, Richard. It’s been a real pleasure chatting with you.

Richard:

[00:39:47 – 00:40:14]

Thank you. It really is, by the way, it is a land of opportunity. Not perfect. Nowhere is perfect. Huge problems, yes, but my view has changed good and bad. But it is the, whatever it is, it is a land of opportunity. Absolutely. Keith, best of luck. And look, we’re open invite. Come back on in the future. Update us. Tell us how you winning. We want to hear an update on, on your next, you know, next battle and, and, and then you’re going to win again and you can come and tell us all about it.

Keith:

[00:40:14 – 00:40:16]

Be delighted to do so. Richard, thank you so much.

Richard:

[00:40:16 – 00:40:18]

Thank you. All right, see you soon.

Keith:

[00:40:18 – 00:40:19]

Bye Bye.

Richard:

[00:40:21 – 00:41:20]

All right, folks, that’s another episode of we’re the Brits in America under Our Belts. Thank you for listening. I appreciate it and I appreciate you. If you’re enjoying the show and would like to support the mission, which is to help ambitious expats and implementation immigrants thrive in America, I’d ask you to subscribe to the pod wherever you listen and also consider leaving a rating and review. This stuff really does matter. Please help us get this information to the people who need it, I. E. Your fellow expats. Just a quick reminder that this show is brought to you by Plan First Wealth. We are a US based lifestyle financial planner and wealth manager and we help successful American and international families living across the US to make the most of their opportunity and ultimately to retire happier. If you’d like to know more about how we might be able to help you, you can find us on our website, planfirstwealth.com or you can look me up on LinkedIn. Do get in touch. We’d love to hear from you. As always, thank you to the podcast guys for their help producing this episode and the entire show. See you next time.