Episode 33
Don’t just do something, stand there! | From The Trenches with James Boyle (We’re The Brits In America S1:E33)
“I don’t want a valuable life lesson, I just want an ice cream.” Those are the immortal words spoken by Bluey, beloved Blue Heeler puppy from Australia. We can all relate, but when it comes to Australian/American cross-border financial planning, a life lesson might be what you need. You can have an ice cream afterwards.
To deliver the lesson, Richard is joined by Ashley Murphy, founder of Arete Wealth Strategists and the Global Financial Planning Institute. Ashley shares his journey from corporate finance to starting his own firm and specializing in cross-border financial planning for Australians and Americans.
Many expats, especially Australians moving to the US, fail to understand the long-term implications of their immigration status on their financial planning. There are unique tax advantages available to those who plan their entry and exit from the US carefully, but many miss out on these benefits because they don’t seek advice early enough. Many Australians in the US, particularly those on temporary visas, often unknowingly commit to green cards or permanent residency without realizing the financial consequences. For instance, long-term US residents may face an “exit tax” if they leave the country or miss out on tax benefits available only to temporary visa holders.
Bluey is a story of success; an Australian who cracked the US market. Set yourself up for the same success with the lessons learned in this episode.
We’re the Brits in America is affiliated with Plan First Wealth LLC, an SEC-registered investment advisor. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Plan First Wealth.
Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial adviser and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Plan First Wealth does not provide any tax and/or legal advice and strongly recommends that listeners seek their own advice in these areas.
About Richard
Richard Taylor is a British expat, dual citizen (UK & US). Originally from Bolton, he now lives in Greenwich, CT, where Plan First Wealth has its head office.
As the firm’s leader, Richard launched Taylor & Taylor, now Plan First Wealth, and continues to fuel the firm’s growth. Richard is a Chartered Financial Planner (UK – CII) in addition to holding the IMC (CFA UK) and Series 65 (US – FINRA).
Connect with Richard on LinkedIn
About Ashley
Ashley Murphy is the founder of Arete Wealth Strategists and the Global Financial Planning Institute. His fee-only firm works with Australian/American expatriates business owners and executives to bring strategy, structure, clarity and confidence to their financial lives. He leverages his expert network to find the best providers for his client’s needs.
Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn
Transcript:
Ashley Murphy:
[00:00:07 – 00:00:19]
Ashley, your annuity sales, they’re no good. I was like, well, of course they’re not good, because it’s still what this client needs, right? I could not be dissuaded otherwise. And I realized why. And that’s because I was right, you.
Richard Taylor:
[00:00:19 – 00:02:44]
Know, 14 years later, 100% you’re right. I can feel my blood pressure rising. Welcome to the we’re the Brits in America podcast, a plan first wealth podcast for Brits in America by Brits in America, dedicated to helping british expats thrive in America. I’m your host, Richard Taylor, and Plan First wealth is the business I founded and run today, and we work with successful british expatriates living across the US to make the most of their opportunity and avoid the expat landmines. However, while Plan First Wealth, LLC is an SEC registered investment advisor, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of planned first wealth. Information presented is for educational purposes only. Now, if you aren’t already receiving our weekly emails, please go to our website, www.plannedfirstwealth.com and sign up to WealthHub. It’s free and you will then be notified every time we drop a new episode and so much more. Alrighty, let’s get back to this week’s show. Hello and welcome back to the we’re the Brits in America podcast. Today we have a from the trenches show for you where I bring in a fellow financial planner in the expat space and we swap war stories and insights into what we see out on the front lines every day in the hope that maybe you can benefit from our experience and frankly, learn from the mistakes of others. So my guest today is Ashley Murphy. Ashley is a founder of two companies relevant to our discussion today. He is the founder and principal of Arete Wealth Strategies, which is an investment advisor serving australian expats in the US. Much like planned first wealth serves Brits living in the US. So Ashley is widely known in the australian expat community in the US for this reason. But he is also widely known within the financial advisor community here as the founder and executive director of the Global Financial Planning Institute, or the GFpI as it’s more commonly referred to, which exists to provide education, community tools and resources, and ongoing research for financial planners and other advanced professionals working with international and cross border clients in the US and Americans abroad, which obviously includes plan first wealth. Ashley is an australian, an american and a british citizen. There’s loads of overlaps with what he does and what we do. So there’s loads of us to talk about today. So without further ado, let’s get into this. Hi, Ashley. Welcome to we’re the Brits in America podcast.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:02:44 – 00:02:55]
Thank you, Richard. Pleasure to be speaking with you. Thank you for running a podcast on this niche topic. I’m not sure that many others do, so thank you just for the inspiration.
Richard Taylor:
[00:02:55 – 00:03:11]
Well, you know, thank you for that. I did wonder when I got started because it is so niche, or niche, as we should say now we’re in America, right? So I can’t quite get there, but it is so niche. You do wonder if you’ll run out of things to say, but I haven’t got there yet. There’s plenty to say. And it changes as well.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:03:11 – 00:03:11]
Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:03:12 – 00:03:20]
And some of it, you know, the financial planning and cross border financial planning, some of it is timeless and universal, and then lots of it is changing constantly.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:03:20 – 00:03:38]
I think there’s even an anxiety that clients have that the timeless and universal things may change. And so even if you talk about the same thing that you spoke about two years ago and nothing’s changed, you’re actually decreasing anxiety in people’s minds, because then they know that nothing has changed.
Richard Taylor:
[00:03:38 – 00:03:40]
Are you familiar with the work of Nick Murray?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:03:40 – 00:03:46]
I am. I am. In fact, it may well be on the pile of books that I’m using to prop up my microphone.
Richard Taylor:
[00:03:47 – 00:04:52]
A man after my own heart, then, yeah. What he’s done for people like us is enormous. But he talks about the vitamin C, you know, how, particularly around investment counseling, people don’t retain this information. And every panic, the lessons of the previous one perhaps haven’t been learned or not. Panics, euphorias, you know, when we lose our heads and euphorias, and he talks about the vitamin C aspect of it and that our job is to. Vitamin C can’t be retained by the body, and you have to constantly give yourself vitamin C. And we’re doing the same with our investment messaging human nature. Human beings can’t retain this information, not through any inadequacy on our part, just because of our nature, the way we evolved. And our job is to continuously top up that knowledge. And I find that helpful because I don’t know about you, if I’m candid here, it can get frustrating. Sometimes you feel like you’re just banging the same drum over and over again. It can get frustrating. You think, why is this message not landing? But then sometimes you’ll save someone from making a critical, life changing error. I think back to Covid. And it’s all worth it.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:04:52 – 00:05:57]
Yeah, actually, that just rings so true for me. What you said. I’m thinking of a former client of mine who was an executive at a cryptocurrency exchange. I think this was mid to early 2021, and it just gave me such deja vu to the late 1990s. Now, I’m not that old, but I was 18 when I first moved to the US, and I was bitten by the tech bug of the San Francisco venture capital scene. And the valuations that you were seeing on anything with a.com or an e at the front of its web address was ridiculous. And it was the same thing as, you know, with crypto as well. And so I implored this. I thought, I must sound like I must be the only person in his life that’s saying, this is totally ridiculous. The valuations you’re seeing are nuts. And you could change your life now if you sold, but you will forever regret it if you do not. And he did. He sold three quarters of what he had, and the rest of it went to practically zero.
Richard Taylor:
[00:05:57 – 00:06:00]
Oh, actually, I thought that story was going somewhere else.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:06:00 – 00:06:18]
He was surrounded by people that were all pushers, you know, that were all like, it’s going to the moon. And to be the one that he actually listened to that caused him to be able to afford a house and essentially get his family started was extremely satisfying. Anyway, war story. But that’s what came to my mind.
Richard Taylor:
[00:06:18 – 00:06:49]
No, I like the war stories. And. Cause, you know, sometimes when you’re telling. When you’re counseling clients of this and everything’s going up around them, and people are buying fancy cars and new houses, and you’re saying, get out, it’s actually much, much harder to verbally give that advice than people think, because it’s so counterintuitive at the time. And that’s a great, like, actual recent story, what I’ve always fallen back on is I just got into. Into this career, and I was working for Scottish Widows in 2008, and Scottish Widows was owned by Lloyd’s banking group.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:06:49 – 00:06:49]
Okay.
Richard Taylor:
[00:06:49 – 00:06:52]
And there were people at widows who’d been there decades.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:06:52 – 00:06:53]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:06:53 – 00:07:16]
And when scottish widows had demutualized and ended up being bought by Lloyds banking group, they got loads of shares. And these are people who were out there every day preaching diversification to financial advisors, and yet they were loaded on Lloyds banking shares. And what happened to Lloyds banking shares in 2008, 2007 to 2009? They went from, I think, five pounds to 20 pence.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:07:16 – 00:07:16]
Wow.
Richard Taylor:
[00:07:16 – 00:07:37]
And the destruction that wrought around me was horrifying. For me to see. No doubt, in the next bubble or the next euphoria you’ll tap into that memory you just reminded me of that will sustain you, just like I’ve repeatedly tapped into that core memory and just get out. You’ve got to diversify.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:07:37 – 00:08:32]
Yeah. And for me, it’s not necessarily diversification. I view it as the asymmetry of the rewards. And that is, let’s say you have a client who’s sitting on what could be a $3 million gain. You know, for most people, that’s going to make a significant difference to their financial situation. They’re risking possibly 90% of that 3 million if they don’t get out. Or maybe they might make 4 million. And when you think about the difference in, say, losing almost all of it versus an additional million, let’s try and visualize what is going to be the difference in your lifestyle between three and 4 million. Maybe you’ll move from business to first. Possibly. Maybe not. Probably not. There’ll be minuscule differences. You’ll go to the same restaurant, you’ll do all the same things. But if you don’t get out, you’re not even on that plane. You’re under the bridge, you know?
Richard Taylor:
[00:08:33 – 00:08:46]
Great point. What a great framing. Fear and greed, my man. Fear and greed. What are we all talking about? Fear and greed. So we got right into the good stuff. So let’s take it back a step and tell us, in your own words, how’d you end up in this unfortunate position? Sat here talking to me. But take us right back to the beginning.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:08:46 – 00:09:22]
Well, my dad was an academic. He was on exchange at the University of Sheffield. This is the early eighties, and the timing happened to be particularly favorable for me. Unfortunately, Brexit wasn’t so favorable for me or for many others, but it meant that if you were merely born in the UK, you were given UK citizenship. So I was first a UK citizen, then, as I mentioned, it was on exchange. So I moved back to Australia, where I was raised. I’m from Brisbane, Australia, but my mother is american or was american. And so that’s how I was an American born abroad in the UK to an australian father. That’s. That’s the story there.
Richard Taylor:
[00:09:22 – 00:09:23]
Australian father?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:09:23 – 00:09:23]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:09:23 – 00:09:31]
American mother, born in Sheffield, raised in Australia. Wow. Okay. What’s going on? Are you an accidental american?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:09:31 – 00:11:58]
No, it was intentional. She went out of her way to get that American born abroad. So she may not have had the knowledge that you and I have about all the financial implications, but, no, it’s. It is a mixed blessing, isn’t it? And I often begin presentation saying that there are literally people dying to get into this country and then there’s other people that have a different problem set. And that is, well, gosh, the US, the IR’s in particular, has a long tail of taxation that’s going to try and catch me many, many years from now, possibly. But anyway, so I’m the youngest of four boys, oldest brothers. Moved to the US in the late nineties. I moved there as well, for a short time, moved back, finished university, then moved permanently after traveling around the world for a while, which actually brings me to another point. So it landed in San Francisco in May of 2005. And how did I afford all of that? That came about, actually, from the same event that led to me ultimately becoming a financial advisor. And that was. I had a terrible bike accident when I was a kid, and I ended up settling with the importer of the suspension fork that collapsed. And suddenly here I am with an inheritance from my mother’s passing in this settlement where I’m 21, and I’ve got about 150,000 australian dollars, which when you’re 21, that feels like 1.5 million or 15 million. I mean, it was just ridiculous. So I went around and I was. I was just finishing up studies in information management and business management. And I had had a particular concentration on finance. And so I interviewed these financial planners, this is 2003, 2004 in Australia. And I found that these guys were all empty suits. They didn’t know anything. They were just preaching what they had read in the prospectus or the lunch, and learn that they just come from. There wasn’t any substance to what they were saying. And so it planted a seed in my mind that surely there’s got to be a way of sitting on the same side of the table as the client, reducing or eliminating, ideally, conflicts of interest and really adding value to intelligent, high functioning professionals. That was the seed that was planted. So I worked in corporate finance for a few years, found that wasn’t for me. And it wasn’t until I went to a UC Berkeley extension information session on the CFP program, where I learned about the entity known as a registered investment advisor, which you’ll be all too familiar with.
Richard Taylor:
[00:11:58 – 00:12:18]
Oh, yeah. You know, hearing you talk about lunch and learn. So, referring back to my scottish widows days, I used to put on those lunch and learns. And it’s my first job. Well, second job in the industry, we used to put on these lunch and learns. And essentially what you’re doing is you’re pitching your products and you’re getting a fund manager to come in and just repeat their story of the day.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:12:18 – 00:12:19]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:12:19 – 00:12:42]
And at the time, I thought that’s what this industry was. But deep down, I knew this was just nonsense. It was just, any fund manager can come in, and there’s always a good story. There’s always a good story to sell. And now thinking about imagine as financial advisors going back and just pitch whoever they had in the afternoon, pitching that latest story from whatever the fun group was, they all came to nothing, because anyone can spin a good yarn about investments.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:12:42 – 00:13:24]
I experienced the exact same thing you’re describing. I worked at a broker dealer when I was first getting into the business, and that’s what we had. We had this constant merry go round of lunch and learns, and every single time you would be seduced, you’d be hypnotized by these incredible stories that these wholesalers would tell. And eventually I would wake up and realize, you know what? This story doesn’t matter. Let’s load Morningstar, let’s load Bloomberg. Let’s look at the actual facts. Let’s look at expense ratios. Let’s look at comparative performance risk metrics and that kind of thing. So these days, I’m a little bit antisocial to the wholesalers because.
Richard Taylor:
[00:13:24 – 00:13:24]
Same.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:13:25 – 00:13:36]
Well, tell me, tell me your numbers, and if I don’t reach out to you, then it’s probably not worth hearing about, because, believe me, I spent a lot of time and money to stay up with what I think is the best information out there.
Richard Taylor:
[00:13:36 – 00:13:54]
Same. And, you know, before I knew who Nick Murray was, I’m going back 1520 years here. I knew something wasn’t right. And then I became an advisor myself, and I coined this phrase for my investment philosophy or my distaste for what we’ve just described. It never took off, not for want of trying. But it was called substance over stories. That was my investment philosophy.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:13:55 – 00:13:55]
Right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:13:55 – 00:14:28]
Substance over stories. Substance being the thing that Nick Murray teaches. I didn’t know Nick Murray at the time, but it’s all that, you know, markets can’t be timed. Investments can’t be forecast. The only way to capture the permanent return on equities is to sit through their inevitable and temporary declines. I didn’t have any of that vernacular back then or way of putting it, but my way of saying it was substance over stories. Stories were just coming and talk about how we’re going to invest in these technology companies in China, which sounds great, but what happened to them? They blew up. The graveyard of investment stories is of Xi Jinping’s reign.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:14:28 – 00:15:38]
Yeah, exactly. And that’s the thing, is, I feel this exact same way. And I think the biggest stories, if you will, are culturally embedded. And maybe this is a great comparison to make right here between UK and Australia. Australians are like lemmings insofar as their love of so called investment real estate. But what they don’t realize is the government has realized that this is a political hot potato. You know, we can’t have such unaffordable real estate, such vast swathes of the country being owned by the people that don’t even live there. It’s just not tenable. And so there’s a host of tax concessions that have been forfeited. There’s a host of punitive taxes that exist for foreign property owners. And yet you try and get that word across to Aussies that owning so called investment real estate from abroad is a fool’s errand. It’s not always bad, but in 95% of cases, it would be bad or crypto. Same thing. You’re going against the current in trying to say, listen, the emperor’s not wearing any clothes, or this isn’t all it’s cranked up to be.
Richard Taylor:
[00:15:38 – 00:16:17]
Brits in Britain are the same about investment property. It’s like a national obsession. It’s tiresome, and the facts don’t matter. The taxation benefits have been eroded steadily over the years for the same reasons you mentioned. And it’s kind of been liberating for me in America, because America embraces equities and stock markets so much more, and that rubs off on Brits as they get here. So in the UK, I think back to my career there and elsewhere as a financial advisor was, you know, just constantly debunking, oftentimes futile, because people who have really got their minds made up on this thing, debunking the investment property myth, you have to do it less here, because people just want the stock market more and they’re rewarded for it.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:16:17 – 00:16:21]
Yeah, I could talk to the cows, come home about it, but I won’t. Good. Right.
Richard Taylor:
[00:16:21 – 00:16:26]
Tell us how Arete got started, then. I understand how you got your start, but how was this working with Aussies here in your own firm? Born.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:16:26 – 00:16:57]
Yeah. So it seems like everyone in the US has an Uncle Bob, and I do, too. And Uncle Bob worked at Morgan Stanley, so he was generous enough to arrange an interview there, and Goldman Sachs and Merrill. And I guess I presented well because I got through to the next round and was offered a position at all of those firms, actually. But I declined it because the way it was presented was you could come in and you could present our story. And if you bring in 10 million a year for the first five years, we’ll keep you. Otherwise we’ll show you the door.
Richard Taylor:
[00:16:57 – 00:17:00]
And I thought, real numbers, actually, real numbers.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:17:00 – 00:17:01]
Those are real numbers we’re talking.
Richard Taylor:
[00:17:01 – 00:17:03]
So this is, we’re going back 20.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:17:03 – 00:17:05]
20 10 20 10 20 10.
Richard Taylor:
[00:17:05 – 00:17:11]
And as a newbie with no network, you’re expected to bring in $50 million in your first year.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:17:11 – 00:17:14]
In the first five years. 10 million a year for the first five years.
Richard Taylor:
[00:17:14 – 00:17:16]
Dude, that’s not, I mean, I don’t think that’s an easy thing to do.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:17:16 – 00:19:22]
No, it’s not. But that’s the thing is, this is what framed my perception of the business to start with was the folks that I met in Australia a decade beforehand were the product of that kind of recruiting system where it was, can you tell a story? Can you hold someone’s attention? Can you persuade them to move their assets to you? And if you can, you’ve got a job. There’s nothing to do in that recruitment process with your technical knowledge, you know, with the value of the advice that you give. And that’s what, for better or worse, I guess I’m a very empirical person and really derived great satisfaction from experiencing and understanding something firsthand. And it was that that led me to want to get a job as a paraplanner. So I did supported 16 advisors at this insurance broker dealer, and it was a phenomenal entry into the business because they were often training advisors, and they themselves are actually perpetrating that very same recruitment practice that I just described. So they would hire so called advisors. It’s not a protected term as it is in Australia now, but they would hire these advisors and they would flunk out within six months, typically. But it was for me, where I wasn’t on that track. I was putting the financial plans together. I was able to get exposed to all that sales training, all that product training, went through, got my CFP, other licenses, and then eventually launched Arata. And what I knew, I actually did spend a few months at the broker dealer before I went out my own. But they were saying, listen, Ashley, your life insurance sales are just not going to cut it. Your annuity sales, they’re no good. And I was like, well, of course they’re not good because it’s still what this client needs. Someone who’s in the early thirties. They do not. Well, maybe with children, sure, they need life insurance. They probably don’t need some sort of variable universal life policy. They don’t need an annuity. They don’t need long term care insurance at that time. And I could not be dissuaded otherwise. And I realized why. And that’s because I was right, you.
Richard Taylor:
[00:19:22 – 00:20:09]
Know, 14 years later, 100%, you’re right. I can feel my blood pressure rising because this is something that really winds me up. Here is term assurance. Huge fan. Immediate annuities. Huge fan. I’m told, I am told repeatedly on LinkedIn and elsewhere, there are places and there are uses for the other annuities and permanent life insurance you refer to. However, I will just say every single time, we’ve inherited a client who’s got these things. One, never is it what the client thinks it is, and it’s never better. And two, I have been unable to ascertain why this product was selected over anything, literally, almost anything else. It really. It frustrates me. So interesting. I did not know that advisory is a protected term in Australia. Is it?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:20:09 – 00:21:03]
Yeah. I wish that would have recent occurrence. Yeah. So it’s not all roses and butterflies and fairy tales in Australia. It’s become a bit over regulated. I think the pendulum has taken 20 years and it’s swung from one extreme to the next. It’s not in that happy middle ground quite yet, but I think that is one good outcome of this. Hein? Royal commission. But that’s another topic for another time. So, yeah, it was late 2012, 2013. I got started, actually. A random sort of claim to fame here. Is that the study group that I was part of launching? It’s remarkable to look back upon it. There was Alan Moore, Mary Beth Storjahan, Sophia Bera, Eric Raburge, Mary Beth’s co CEO of Abacus multibillion dollar firm. Sophia’s on NBC. Alan Moore founded XY Planning Network. Eric is in the news all the time. I think he’s on NBC as well, or CNN, one or the other. And look at me. I’m the bum of the group.
Richard Taylor:
[00:21:04 – 00:21:07]
Wait, you founded a study group that these people were all in?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:21:07 – 00:21:07]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:21:07 – 00:21:13]
How did you. And this is prior to their current iterations, where we all know these people. How did you. What was the connection? How did you know them? At this point?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:21:13 – 00:22:00]
It was actually FPA, the Financial Planning association’s young professionals chapter. They call it NextGen. And it was great. You know, it’s pitched as a conference, as actually more of a party, more like spring break or schoolies, as they call it in Australia. But you really get to know these people beyond just the superficial chit chat. So you’re spending a couple days and you get to know them, and you figure out who’s who in the zoo, and that’s how it happened. So that was a great study group for a little while. Launched Arete, prompted by the name Aristotle. That’s where it comes from. So habits and behaviors of virtue and excellence, that’s what Arete means in Greek. Rugged mountain ridgeline. In French, double entendre. And I just love that name. Maybe I shouldn’t have gone to that, because what I’ve realized is no one knows how to pronounce it. I’m used to.
Richard Taylor:
[00:22:00 – 00:22:05]
No, I think that’s. I’ve got a soft spot for anything ancient greek and ancient roman. I like that.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:22:05 – 00:22:05]
There you go.
Richard Taylor:
[00:22:05 – 00:22:06]
And it also makes sense now I think about your logo.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:22:06 – 00:23:58]
It makes sense. Yeah. Hey, exactly. So I started off, like many people, I did not have a differentiation, but I was told, and this, I expect, Richard, you and I have never spoken about this before, but I imagine this probably rings true for you as well. So, having not gone to university in the US, having really only spent a decade working in jobs, so half of that time was in corporate finance, the other half was with financial planners. So I didn’t really have a quote unquote, natural market to go and prospect to. So I did what I did, I got going, and things were going okay. But to be honest, it really was a slog for the first five years. And it wasn’t until I really went deep with the Aussie expat niche, which was funny how that happened. It kind of happened for me through two events, one of which was a lady referred an Aussie to me, thinking, well, you’re australian, so therefore you must know everything about the australian taxation retirement investment system, of course. And so I went about, I did a graduate diploma in financial planning in Australia. And then the second thing was from a marketing study, I had nominated my companies to be part of this marketing study that they were doing at a local business school. And they said, well, I understand you got this domestic identity. Aritable strategist and aritable strategist, Australia. We’re only doing the study once, so which one’s it going to be? And I said, oh, all right, let’s do the australian side. And so that kind of forced me to make a decision because my marketing had really been split until that time. And I can say with great confidence, for the last five years, maybe longer, maybe going back to 2018, I have not had a single client that has not had some kind of international cross border complication so the domestic clients that I’ve got are all from prior to that, that point in time.
Richard Taylor:
[00:23:58 – 00:24:02]
So it’s obviously mostly Australians in America, right?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:24:02 – 00:24:43]
I imagine, as you know, Richard, Americans often don’t have the best geographical knowledge and they hear a foreign accent and they’re like, you’re foreign, you’re going to do great with most swedish friend, you know, who’s got. It’s true, it’s true. Canadian, German, Swedish. So I would say two thirds of my clients have some sort of australian connection, and then the remaining third would be domestic clients. And then a smattering of randoms in there, including Germans and Aussie, actually, who was in Sweden, funnily enough. And then, forgive me, Richard, a Brit or two. That’s.
Richard Taylor:
[00:24:43 – 00:25:39]
Oh, how dare you? Well, if I’d known that. That’s interesting. I assumed you’d be all Australians in America. Australians who have returned to Australia from America. And I thought you might have a smattering of Americans who had worked in, you know, Australia, Sydney, wherever, and then come back. I didn’t realize other people as well, because we’ve shied away from that. We’ve gone hard on the Brits in America. We want to be known for that space, and then we’ve essentially turned everyone else away. So if an Australian came to me, I’d send them your way. If an Irish came to me, I’d send them to my friend Shaun’s way. We’re actually about to change that a little bit. And we’re opening up to Americans because we kept turning Americans away. But we’ve realized that the core offering of our service is lifestyle financial planning. That’s universal for the people in the net worth that we deal with. And the cross border knowledge and experience that we’ve learned is way more complex than the average American, and they still need the lifestyle. So we’re actually starting to open up that tentatively. But we’ve turned away non Brits.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:25:40 – 00:27:01]
Yeah, I would say just a correction to what was there in the introduction. So we work with Australians in America, Americans in Australia. The Americans in Australia is a more salient target market because they will often have inheritances or retirement accounts. That really does get complicated, you know, trying to manage the tax impact of that so they appreciate our services. The returned Aussies are in the same boat as the other Americans with their us retirement accounts. But what has not been a target market at all is returned Americans from Australia. That’s not. It’s not really a thing I’ve found, and I say that because either it isn’t in fact, or they just don’t appear. They don’t come because I think the Americans that go to Australia, one of two categories, they’re the permanent movers that either fall in love with an australian or Australia and move there, or they only move for two years just to say that they’ve done it, in which case their financial center of gravity never really moves from the US in the first place. So there’s nothing to do. There wouldn’t be any appeal that a firm like mine would have because they never really got particularly entangled in. Maybe they’ve got $20,000 in a superannuation account, but that’s not enough to bother seeking out a specialist advisor, I would think.
Richard Taylor:
[00:27:01 – 00:27:18]
So you make this kind of pivot to focusing on Aussies or cross border. Do you remember the baptism of fire that you presume you went through where you realized that, oh, this gets complicated. Oh, there are repercussions to this stuff. Do you remember that period and how navigate it?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:27:18 – 00:27:42]
I remember, actually I’ve only ever done this once. I had promoted a webinar to do with cross border estate planning and I had to cancel it because the deeper I went down the rabbit hole, the more I realized I just, I can’t even talk about it because I don’t have enough answers to even speak authoritatively on it. Now that was six years ago. So these days I’m doing joint webinars with cross border estate planners.
Richard Taylor:
[00:27:42 – 00:28:11]
Ashley, can we just have a moment to call out what I think is one of the best features about us cross border guys? The self awareness. While an actual cross border advisor cancels a webinar because he realizes like, oh, this is a big can of worms. There are hundreds of financial advisors and tax advisors, estate planners out there in America right now advising Aussies and Brits, and they really shouldn’t be. And they’re getting them into a whole load of mess. They don’t know what they don’t know. And I wish more people had that self awareness.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:28:11 – 00:29:59]
Yeah, well, thank you very much. I appreciate the compliment. My experience was I would read white papers, read positions in a blog post and so forth from thought leaders, and it dawned upon me that there wasn’t universal agreement on the treatment of certain accounts. And so that became very difficult because as a non expert, as a non tax attorney, as I am, who am I to say what the proper treatment is of a superannuation account by the IR’s? And so inevitably I would have to take a middle road position and really develop a far deeper understanding of the point and that the case that any particular practitioner was making. Because ultimately, and I’m sure, in fact, I know because of one thing we’ve spoken about before, that as a cross border advisor, you actually need to have a consistent, it cannot waiver view on how you handle certain matters based on the opinions of leading practitioners in the field. And so I was gaining the sense, but eventually I realized, you know what, I. I need really authoritative information. So I actually commissioned my own research. I was lucky enough to network with some folks in academia at an FBA conference and was introduced to a two PhD candidates. One was going through Kansas State in the financial planning program there, where they offer a PhD. The other one was doing a PhD in tax and accounting at Griffith University in Australia. And so I paid them a stipend to steer their research towards this particular area. Because very often there were many questions where there were no answers. It wasn’t a matter of comparing practitioners and finding something reasonable. There was literally nothing written. And so I was able to get my own answers to many of these questions.
Richard Taylor:
[00:29:59 – 00:30:21]
This grey area thing is such a challenge because it depends. No one wants to hear that. And when you’re the professional out there saying, well, it depends, I don’t know, there’s this answer and there’s that answer. People get really frustrated with you when they can just get a much simpler answer or maybe not even ask a question of someone else.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:30:21 – 00:30:22]
Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:30:22 – 00:30:50]
That’s something we’ve had to really grapple with. We actually, for a long time, we wanted to bring tax in house and I’ve essentially just abandoned it for that reason. There’s too many unknowns or too many grey areas. And now we work with a panel of like, cross border tax advisors. Which brings me actually to a question. So you’ve been doing this for a long time. Hottest season America in this cross border space. Can you think of anything, like if there was one or two things that you just wish you could tell every Aussie who’s here or coming here? Does anything spring to mind?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:30:51 – 00:32:34]
Yeah, it does, actually. And that is to do with immigration and understanding that there are some wonderful gifts embedded in the us tax code and the US Australian Tax treaty that you can really only take advantage of if you are no longer a us tax resident. And typically that’s going, as you know, that’s going to fall to visa, temporary visa holders or non long term green card holders. Many people, I think, sleepwalk their way down the pathway to becoming green card holders and possibly citizens. Oftentimes it’s done with good reasons in mind, particularly during the last administration, funding to the immigration department really dried up. And it wasn’t just a case of selective enforcement or defunding of certain countries. It became universal. So much so that I had clients that had visas yet to be approved that had to return to Australia, go through quarantine for two weeks, sit around, stare at the wall until their visas came through. So those are instances of where I’m like, yeah, okay, you know, maybe getting a green card really would be simpler than renewing your visa. But that’s the thing that comes to mind. There’s a step up in basis for highly appreciated assets. You avoid the exit tax, you can roll over your retirement accounts in a manner far better than what is available to american citizens. All these things you can do, it’s agreed upon by moderate conservative practitioners. They’re there, it’s written in the tax code or in the treaty. But people don’t really, they don’t know it and they don’t understand the implications.
Richard Taylor:
[00:32:34 – 00:32:39]
So really, entry and exit planning, linking your tax and your immigration planning.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:32:39 – 00:33:09]
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s right. Yeah. But no one ever does that. I don’t know about you, Richard, but I don’t know if actually, I probably have. Once or twice. I’ve probably ever been approached by a client who is moving to the US and wants to do planning in advance of their us move. Almost always it’s, I’m moving to back to Australia next month and I should talk to you. And by that point, often it’s too late. You know, all you can really do is just work with the case that’s before you.
Richard Taylor:
[00:33:09 – 00:34:27]
Actually, honestly, that is one of the many reasons why this podcast exists. Partly is I just get tired of repeating the same things over and over again. And I just want to put a permanent record of stuff out there. But the other thing is, some of this stuff is so important and people realize too late. And if we can, I’m going to do an episode on just this soon. And my hope is that one people exiting, you know, will listen to podcasts and do stuff before they leave. I’ll give them enough Runway. But two people looking to move to America might pick this podcast up. And if they hear this, then hopefully won’t make some of these mistakes. And I was talking to a guy recently, a young lad, successful young lady. He was a DIY investor in the UK. And before moving to America, he actually went and got a quote from a UK cross border tax advisor. Now, these guys cost a premium for good reason. For good reason. But we’re talking, I think he said it was a couple of two or 3000 pounds. He was just like, no way, that’s ridiculous. I’m not paying that for tax advice. Moved here with a bunch of, with a load of money in PFiX, in Isa order, established residents here, he’s unwound them now at a cost of maybe $30,000 in taxes that could have been avoided. And he’s like, wow, do you know what? I kick myself for that. Fair play to him. He’s made the mistake once, he’s not going to make it again now. He’s like I diy’d in the UK, I’m not going to do it here.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:34:27 – 00:35:46]
I have a different view on this sort of thing. I’m going to say something, I think you’ll agree with it, but it is a divergent view. And that is, I believe that the market consists of, broadly speaking, three types of individuals. And that is you’ve got your diyers, youve got the people who wont do anything at all. They just dont plan. Then youve got the folks that they want to plan and theyre just not interested in becoming an expert on it and doing it themselves. Theyre the addressable market for advisors. I dont believe in trying to twist the arm of the diyers and force them into the hands of the advisors because its not a natural fit. Theyre not good clients. They dont want to be clients in the first place. And for the accounting firm to Char, you know, who knows what that engagement would have entailed and how personalized it was. But to me it could have actually been done in a 1 hour webinar or a brief white paper for folks moving from the UK to the US or Australia to the US. It’s the same sorts of things. It’s like, be aware of this, this, this and this and so long. And if your situation gets even more complicated then, you know, feel free to reach out, but otherwise just do that. And hey, by the way, do me a favor and just tell your friends at the next barbecue or networking event or whatever that aren’t diyers, you know, a resource that they could reach out to if they want help.
Richard Taylor:
[00:35:46 – 00:36:05]
So I agree with you to a point. So I absolutely agree with you on the whole. There’s no point trying to convince diyers because to your point, they don’t want to be clients and they actually resent you for it. They resent having to ask you for information and pay you for it. That’s why you gotta be so careful with free consultations, because you can get really abused by them.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:36:05 – 00:36:05]
Sure.
Richard Taylor:
[00:36:05 – 00:36:52]
The problem is right with that, because I think if this podcast existed, this guy, I think would have probably found this podcast, if it existed, when he was moving, and it might have saved him from making that mistake and not spend either two or 3000 pounds with a cross border tax advisor. That being said, I am surprised by the amount of sophisticated, successful potential clients I meet who are aware of PFIX and yet have a portfolio full of them in an ISA. My point I’m going with here actually is sometimes just providing a knowledge isn’t enough because there are permutations and gray areas. And what about this? And people, even with the, if they’re literally hoarding their information in their hand in a white paper or listening to it in a podcast, stuff can still get missed. Maybe there’s no solution. Maybe there’s no perfect solution.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:36:52 – 00:37:04]
Maybe it’s like the vitamin C that you were talking about earlier. You know, people, these intelligent, high functioning adults still need to be reminded of, you know, the facts of the PIFC issues and so forth. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:37:04 – 00:37:06]
Getting into it, Pfix and all this.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:37:06 – 00:37:14]
Good stuff, you know, my love for talking about pifcs and FBAs. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:37:14 – 00:38:23]
Oh, the life of a cross border fragile planner, right? Just lobbing fat canumbers around at each other. Let’s talk about the GFPI Global Financial Planning institute. We are huge fans. I just tell people, first of all, so I learned this the hard way. You learned this the hard way. You’ve gone on to not only to learn all this stuff, but then to go on to found this community education resource, research resource, so many things. And I’ve actually put everyone who joins plan first wealth goes through the GFPI courses. The stuff that took me years to learn and learning the hard way. Like I say, I now put our staff through it straight away. That’s the starting point. And that teaches them the cross border stuff. So I think it’s super important to be country specific. The US is one part of it. They can get out through the CFP. Cross border is the second part of it. That’s great. The third part of it is the home country, in my case, the UK. And then the interaction of the two, that is the treaty. So the starting point for me is GFPI. So I love the educational stuff you do. I like the community you put together. And I’m kind of just in awe that you’ve just created this from scratch where it didn’t exist. I think it’s hugely important, and I like the people who are part of it. So tell us how that came to be. Yeah.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:38:23 – 00:39:25]
Well, it came about because I was sitting on the knowledge circle of the FPA, the 20,000 member financial planning organization in the US, and I observed a dysfunctional dynamic. And that was. I knew that there were about a dozen, maybe one and a half dozen of these kinds of cross border advisors that you just described, where they had learned it themselves. They’d been in the trenches and had spent tens of thousands of hours and dollars educating themselves on these topics. And what would happen, invariably, a couple times a week, there would be an advisor who had no business talking to a particular prospect, who presented with all kinds of cross border complications. And they would write in and they would say, oh, hey, Ashley, hey, I’ve got this prospect who’s from Australia, and he’s got a superannuation account. And I’m just hoping you can tell me everything I need to know about that and how I can serve this guy and just flub my way through the fit meeting so I can sign them as a client. Can you do that for me?
Richard Taylor:
[00:39:25 – 00:39:32]
Can you tell me how I can get that into an IRA? No.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:39:32 – 00:41:02]
Yeah. Yeah. So there’s two approaches, at least two approaches to handling this kind of inquiry, of which there’s an evergreen source of these kinds of inquiries, one of which is you could shame them. You could say, hey, you’re in breach of your competence standard when you sign your CFP oath. Says, I will not advise on things that I don’t know about, you know, I’m not competent to provide advice on. You could do that, and I did a little bit. Not much. This is going back 2018, kind of in a timeframe. The other alternative, I thought, was, you know what? Let’s give these folks a fair go. If they really want to know this stuff, we need to present them with that knowledge in an organized, concise manner. And so that’s what led to the creation of the GFP. Right. There was to be able to say to these very advisors that want to know about these things, okay, you can know what you need to know. It’s probably going to take you six months to learn the basics, and then another two years before you know the other side of these things. If you’re willing to do that, then I will treat you as a compatriot, as a colleague, and we’ll look each other in the eye and it will be amongst equals. But if you’re not, then I know you’re a poser and really you’re another one of these. Like, I was talking about the empty suits at the outset that really bring discredit, I think, upon the profession.
Richard Taylor:
[00:41:02 – 00:41:06]
Yeah, I agree. So tell me, so what happened? That’s the genesis, but.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:41:06 – 00:43:54]
So that’s the genesis. All right, so it was mid 2020. Covid was raging. I’m good friends with an old student, and we’ve had a lot of different relationships together professionally. So Matt Goran, who was first, he was a student of mine at Berkeley when I was teaching there. Then he worked for me for a short period of time. Then he became an academic, and he’s now actually the head of curriculum for Dalton, the second largest CFP provider out there. We were talking and I somehow got his interest on this. And so we went and we recruited those two PhD candidates that I mentioned, and I had a marketing guy and we put it all together and there was a phenomenal response. That first class was actually the biggest one we ever had. 26 advisors that signed up for the inaugural GFP masterclass. And so we essentially did wash, rinse, repeat, you know, Mister Miyagi had a couple more masterclasses, then we had a conference, was in Mexico last year, brought together 26 advisors, nearly doubled that. This year we’re around 44 in Miami. And then later this year we’ll be in San Francisco and next year in Austin, Texas. And we’re very proud to be hosting Richard Taylor from plan first wealth at our November conference in San Francisco. I’d say it’s a small, tight knit community. I have no interest in lowering the standards. In fact, I’m raising the standards. We’re doing the exact opposite. We’re booting out a lot of open members because they’re just keeping a seat warm. They don’t seem to be interested in actually progressing their knowledge and rolling out, as, you know, an advanced course. So there’s the original masterclass that’s been streamlined down to this essentials program now offered on the education platform of the investments and Wealth Institute. So, essentials and global financial planning. And we’re putting together the advanced class in global financial planning, which is going to be countries. Provide five country specific profiles. Australia, Canada, UK, Spain, and Mexico. Really taken from the five most popular places that we’ve seen Americans move to. So the common thread here is America. I was speaking with the president of the Canadian FPA association and said, hey, we’d certainly welcome canadian advisors, but the masterclass or the essentials program that we offer really is us centric as you said earlier there are some timeless, universal things in there. Really. This is to do with us tax laws and the way things work here and apply when you’ve got someone who’s going to a foreign country, but we’re not getting into all the nitty gritty of the foreign country outside of the advanced class.
Richard Taylor:
[00:43:54 – 00:44:00]
Those countries you list, none of them would have surprised me, other than Spain. I would have thought France and Italy might have been up there.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:44:00 – 00:44:34]
Yeah. Mainland Europe’s a tough one because Germany, France, increasingly Portugal. But Germany, France and Spain, maybe Italy as well, are kind of equally represented, and therefore none of them really stick out. And so I thought, who do I know that knows a lot about and would be willing to instruct? And to be honest, I also have a little bit of a personal preference for Spain as well. So I was like, ah, let’s do Spain. I’d like to know about Germany, but in the interests of time and getting something produced, we’re not doing those other countries quite yet.
Richard Taylor:
[00:44:34 – 00:44:53]
I think Germany is big with the military community more, whereas I think the Spain, Portugal, France, and Italy, I’ve got some connections in this community, naturally, from what we do, and I think this is a real big thing. I think there’s more and more Americans with their eye on those places, and it’s happening right now.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:44:53 – 00:45:27]
I think you’re right. Yeah. And it’s being made possible, I think, by two broad forces. And that is word slowly creeping out about citizenship through ancestry. So, for instance, my wife, her family descends from Greece, ultimately. So there’s an angle there. And many others have got that approach as well. And then also, as you know, through Italy, Spain, Portugal, these Malta, Cyprus, these citizenship by investment programs as well.
Richard Taylor:
[00:45:27 – 00:45:36]
So, you know, GFPI members. Are you finding people that are joining who aren’t already in this space, who maybe got their eye on becoming a cross border?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:45:36 – 00:46:55]
I’d say the GFP entrant, again, consists of really three broad groups, maybe four. So there’s the experienced advisor that’s looking for a community like yourself that say, okay, great, someone’s made this easier and digestible, and I can easily communicate and train staff, and we can rub shoulders with people that. That are offering complementary services. So there’s them. Then there’s the growing ensemble race advisor. They’ve got a couple hundred million dollars, maybe a couple hundred clients, and they’ve said, you know what? Just like the law firm that’s growing, the successful law firm, they begin to add different practice areas, and that’s what they do. So they say oh, well, you know, we’re in Miami or San Francisco. We seem to run into a lot of experts. So why don’t we train some advisor on this area so that we can say that we know what we’re doing? So there’s them. Then you get your sort of dabbler, this sort of newer financial advisor that’s seeking out their niche and their niche niche, trying it on. And then the smallest group of all would be the students who. Maybe they’re not that different to the early stage advisor other than in age, but they’re also kind of trying to figure out, is this for them? So those are the four.
Richard Taylor:
[00:46:55 – 00:47:05]
Are you finding a dabbler stays a dabbler or are you finding that there are dabblers who graduate into, you know, really finding their niche or niche and owning it?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:47:05 – 00:47:37]
It’s funny to say, even though it has been four years, not enough time has truly passed to tell because this all just happens at the speed of life. I’m thinking of a couple of advisors that seemed to have dabbled. You know, they’ve gone through the program, they’re in the community, they’re active participants. But would I say that they’ve got thriving and successful cross border practices at this point? Probably not, but it takes. Right? It just takes time. Then I could give you a good, solid answer on that.
Richard Taylor:
[00:47:37 – 00:48:12]
If I was a fresh college grad now, that’s what I would be doing. I’d be going, I, you know, for me, I’d be finding a european country, but it absolutely doesn’t have to be. And I’d be trying to pay attention to how many expats were in America for this particular niche and then building a client bank around that and getting into the community, ideally with something that, you know, I felt affinity for. So you mentioned Spain. Sounds like you have an affinity for Spain. I got married in Italy. For me, it’d probably be Italy now. I know that’s a more popular area and just kill two birds with 1 st, indulge my own interests whilst also building a community and a business around it. I think that’s a great opportunity.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:48:12 – 00:48:49]
Does it get any better than that? No, I don’t think it does. And that’s the thing, is I do feel a bit vain sometimes when I’m talking about the GFP and about Arete, when I say I’ve got a thriving business, I do what I love, I make a difference in people’s lives and I have tax deductible travel between Australia and the US. And I get. I’m also a cycling enthusiast. I represented Australia at the world championships last year. And so I bring my bike with me, go to the Bay Area, go to Germany, go to Australia, and I’m doing what I love, and it’s tax deductible. Does it get any better than that?
Richard Taylor:
[00:48:49 – 00:48:58]
No, but okay, we’re going to finish the GFPI. I just want to say, I love what you’ve done. I love what you’re doing. And thank you for setting it up.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:48:58 – 00:48:59]
So thank you. Thank you.
Richard Taylor:
[00:49:00 – 00:49:04]
We were going to finish there, but I’ve got to ask, I didn’t know that you represent Australia at the championships.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:49:04 – 00:49:05]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:49:05 – 00:49:05]
Tell me.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:49:05 – 00:50:10]
I didn’t say I did really well. I didn’t say I was on the podium. I qualified, I was there. And that’s possibly the biggest accomplishment, sporting wise, I’ll ever have, but I’d like to do it again. The championships are actually. They’re on in a few weeks in Denmark, and the next year is actually Melbourne in Australia, so that’ll be a little bit easier. I didn’t qualify this year. That’s actually why I was in Germany. It was for a qualifier. It was just quickly, side story. I should have known I was going to get my butt kicked because when I went through immigration, speaking to this middle aged, half moon glasses lady, thickly set at the immigration, and she said, were you here for business or pleasure? And I said, I guess I’m here for pleasure. I’m here for a cycling event. And this lady, would you believe it, she’s like, oh, did you see how van der Poel did last week in this race? And he overtook. I was like, you’ve got to be kidding me. It’s like soccer in the UK or rugby. This lady, of all people, knew it. I got absolutely smoked by the Germans and the Dutch and the Belgians are just vicious cyclists. Absolutely.
Richard Taylor:
[00:50:10 – 00:50:12]
They live it. Do they? They live it.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:50:12 – 00:50:14]
They do, that’s for sure.
Richard Taylor:
[00:50:14 – 00:50:14]
Wow.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:50:14 – 00:50:16]
Yeah. So I didn’t qualify this year.
Richard Taylor:
[00:50:16 – 00:50:19]
How much training do you have to do to get to that level?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:50:19 – 00:50:38]
Probably about 20. I’d say 2020, 5 hours a week. I was just at the gym for an hour and a half this morning. Mountain bike ride yesterday, road ride the day before. So, you know, most. Most days I’m doing something, but it’s not to be a world champion. That’s not the goal. It’s just to stay fit and healthy as I age.
Richard Taylor:
[00:50:38 – 00:50:39]
You’ve got kids?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:50:39 – 00:50:39]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:50:40 – 00:50:42]
You’ve got a business similar size to mine, so I know what goes into it.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:50:42 – 00:50:43]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:50:43 – 00:50:53]
Yeah, you’re running the GFPI, which I can only imagine is a significant undertaking. You’ve got a wife and kids, which is a significant undertaking if you do it properly and you’re training 25 hours.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:50:53 – 00:51:50]
A week, like how, not now I’m not. That was, that was. So I had to call in some iousen for the, for the worlds. Last year I was out on long training rides and Im not this year. This year its probably more like 18 or less than 15, 1518, something like that. So we make it work. The GFP actually doesnt take as much time and often im leading an email by saying, im sorry for taking something to get back to you. But, you know, this is a passion project thats essentially on the side and clients come first and so they take all of my attention. But I very much do lean into tech automations and I’ve spent a lot of money on consultants and really trying to make my business as efficient as it can possibly be. And I think I’m pretty close to it, actually. And I enjoyed sharing those things as well. As you know, we’ve had conversations about various things in the past.
Richard Taylor:
[00:51:50 – 00:52:06]
We have my responses, like always. What I’ve just asked, how are you doing this? So on that note, no, listen, I’m super impressed. Thank you for being a guest on weather Brits in America today. Just in case anyone wants to find you. Where can people track you down?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:52:06 – 00:52:30]
Yeah, well, currently I’m living in Minneapolis, Minnesota, but we’re moving to Brisbane next year. So I’ll actually be there full time as of January. But coming back to the US a couple times a year, but online, that would be arete. A r e t e w s. So arite wealth strategists. And that’s where we work with Australians in America and Americans in Australia.
Richard Taylor:
[00:52:30 – 00:52:38]
Okay, well, listen, you’ve delayed the end again. I can’t let that comment go without, first of all, Brisbane Homer Bluey. They’re believed to be home of Brisbane. Right. It’s not actually been confirmed.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:52:38 – 00:52:41]
Oh, no, no. There is no question. It’s Brisbane.
Richard Taylor:
[00:52:41 – 00:52:41]
Okay.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:52:41 – 00:52:50]
If you’re from Brisbane, you can look at almost any episode and see, oh, there’s South bank, there’s Mount Coutha, there’s that cathedral.
Richard Taylor:
[00:52:50 – 00:52:51]
Okay.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:52:51 – 00:52:53]
It’s definitely Brisbane.
Richard Taylor:
[00:52:53 – 00:52:56]
Good to know. What a wonderful, wonderful program.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:52:56 – 00:53:17]
I love it. I will say this. Bluey’s house is somewhat of a composite. Like, you can look at various angles and you see backgrounds where there is no one place where that could possibly exist. It’s like what they do in the movies sometimes where they use a composite background to give an impression of a place, but it can’t be specifically identified.
Richard Taylor:
[00:53:17 – 00:53:27]
Oh, interesting. I gotta tell you, I love Bluey’s backyard. That tree with the seating around it and the huge area they’ve got. I always sing what a wonderful. What a wonderful backyard they’ve got.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:53:27 – 00:53:30]
Come visit, Richard. We’ll have that place.
Richard Taylor:
[00:53:30 – 00:53:51]
Well, tell me we’re across border. There’s brits will be listening to this. Who, in my experience, everyone says they’re staying in America. People either definitely going back. 80% of people saying they’re definitely staying somewhere undecided. And some who say they’re never going back. Within five years, we’ll be back. The life of an expat is just inherently changeable. So tell us, you’ve been here for a long time.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:53:52 – 00:53:52]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:53:52 – 00:53:53]
What’s. What’s your decision?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:53:53 – 00:55:28]
Wow. So it’ll be 20 years next year, as you know. You know, I think I moved in what I would call the domicile uncertain phase. You know, I was like, if I meet misses Wright or if I get some awesome job opportunity, then I’m going to stay for a while. And that’s what ended up happening. But I. I think I just feel more alive. I feel more connected. I think there are deep cultural differences. Not everyone feels this way. I’ve got good friends from high school. I’m thinking of that. I would say they’re permanent movers. They feel very comfortable here in the US. But for me, I miss the topography of Brisbane. Minneapolis is very flat. It’s very cold, it’s very gray for six months of the year. And then also just that deep connection. You know, we catch up with an old mate. And I think there’s a very british element of australian culture where you can shoot the shit and you could have an opinion that, you know will be heard as just an opinion that you might not necessarily even believe. You’re just. You’re just having a debate for the hell of it, you know, just for the fun of it. And I think people here can get very animated by hearing things that go against their values and may hold you to an opinion that you yourself do not deeply hold. You’re just saying it just for the hell of it. But you fail. Well, I don’t these days, but I used to fail to understand that. I’m just having a go, I’m having a chat. And I don’t really care one way or the other about this, that or the other.
Richard Taylor:
[00:55:28 – 00:55:43]
So interesting to hear you talk about this. Yeah, I vacillate. One day I’m committed to America, next day I’m pining for the UK, and the next day I’m thinking I’m fantasizing about living in Rome. You know, it just changes day to day.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:55:43 – 00:55:47]
It’s hard, especially with the family. You know, you got to think about your kids, where they’re going to go to school.
Richard Taylor:
[00:55:47 – 00:55:47]
Yeah.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:55:47 – 00:56:21]
I think what made all the difference for us was we’re here primarily for my wife’s family. She’s very close to them and they’re wonderful people. But I. That is not a best friend from my youngest daughter. It’s not a best friend from my older daughter. It’s not connections for me, it’s one single connection. And what we have in Brisbane is we all have a whole bunch of different friends and connections, and there’s so much more to do. Within an hour, you can be at the beach, at a rainforest, in the mountains in here. An hour in any direction and you’ll be in a cornfield.
Richard Taylor:
[00:56:21 – 00:56:23]
Are your brothers back in Brisbane now?
Ashley Murphy:
[00:56:23 – 00:56:26]
Got one brother there, another in Calgary, another in Denver. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:56:26 – 00:56:49]
It’s funny bringing this full circle back to Bluey because that’s where I want to be. My wife and I are here so completely solo. It’s just me, my wife, kids, and the dog. No other family’s back in the UK, and I’m kind of okay with that, really, for most of the time. But when on Bluey, when the family comes over, you know, when his brother comes over and with muffin, because we’ve got a muffin, we’ve got a bluey and a muffin. But when brother comes over, well, there’s two brothers, but especially the brother with the kids.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:56:50 – 00:56:50]
Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:56:50 – 00:56:56]
And they’re hanging around. I think that’s actually the one time when I really think, oh, we’re missing. Something’s missing here.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:56:56 – 00:57:05]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we got the cousins here, but my brother’s kids are a little bit older, so it’s a little bit different than at the same age. Yeah.
Richard Taylor:
[00:57:05 – 00:57:12]
Right. Well, look, I’ve pretended to close this three times now, so let’s close this out. So thank you, Ashley, for being a great guest. Thanks for coming on with the Brits in America.
Ashley Murphy:
[00:57:12 – 00:57:13]
Been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Richard Taylor:
[00:57:13 – 00:58:21]
Cheers. All right, folks. Folks, that’s another episode of we’re the Brits in America under our belts. Thank you for listening. I appreciate it. And I appreciate you. If you’re enjoying the show and would like to support the mission, which is to help brits thrive in America, I’d ask you to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and also consider leaving a rating and a review. This stuff really does matter. Please help us get this information to the people who need it. That is your fellow Brits living in America. Just a quick reminder that this show is brought to you by plan first wealth we are a us based US UK cross border financial planning and wealth management firm, and we help successful british expatriates living across the US to make the most of their opportunity and ultimately to retire Apia. So if you’re a british expat living in America and you’d like to know more about what we do for people like you, you can find us at our website on firstwealth.com or you can look me up on LinkedIn. Do get in touch. We’d love to hear from you. As always, thank you to Sam Nash and the podcast guys for their help producing this episode and the entire show. See you next time.
Production