Sell In May And Go Away? (From The Trenches with James Boyle: We’re The Brits In America S1:E22)

Richard Taylor and James Boyle are back, bringing you the latest reports and their unfiltered takes on what’s going in the world of US/UK cross-border investing and financial planning.

Rich and James start with a look at how the markets behaved in May, which was generally very positive. As said many times on the show before, it’s important not be reactive or make emotional investment decisions. Current events influencing long-term investment strategies is a common mistake. Don’t touch that third rail!

The conversation then turns to investment and tax implications for expats who may move back to the UK. What are the implications for reporting vs non-reporting funds? Avoid punitive tax liabilities with some key planning decisions.

Finally, the talk turns to retirement (sadly not their own) and, citing a recent New York Times Magazine piece, the importance of having something to retire to. Have you thought about your retirement plan? It’s crucial to have one. James and Rich weigh up the pros and cons of retiring early against continuing to work in a consultancy role.

We’re the Brits in America is affiliated with Plan First Wealth LLC, an SEC-registered investment advisor. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Plan First Wealth.

Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial adviser and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Plan First Wealth does not provide any tax and/or legal advice and strongly recommends that listeners seek their own advice in these areas.

About Richard

Richard Taylor is a British expat, dual citizen (UK & US). Originally from Bolton, he now lives in Greenwich, CT, where Plan First Wealth has its head office.

As the firm’s leader, Richard launched Taylor & Taylor, now Plan First Wealth, and continues to fuel the firm’s growth. Richard is a Chartered Financial Planner (UK – CII) in addition to holding the IMC (CFA UK) and Series 65 (US – FINRA).

Connect with Richard on LinkedIn

About James

James Boyle is the lead financial planner at Plan First Wealth. He is going on ten years in the industry on the American financial planning side, including having certification as a financial planner in the States. James is also CFP level four UK cross-border certified, making him exceptionally qualified in the niche in which he works.

Connect with James on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Richard Taylor:
(00:11)
Welcome to another episode of From the Trenches. In this show, myself and my plan first wealth colleague, James Boyle, get together to bring you behind the curtain, at plan first wealth to share with you our thoughts and opinions on what’s going on in the world, to provide some technical information useful to Brits in America, to help them thrive here, and finally to bring insights and observations from our life and work.

Guys, so much shorter than my usual introductions. I’m normally waffling on for like 10 minutes, but I don’t need to now. So, hi James.

James Boyle
(00:41)
Gives us more time to get into the meat of it, right? Thanks, Rich. Good to be back. Exactly.

Richard Taylor:
(00:44)
Get into the good stuff, so to speak. Right, so, well, I’m gonna be polite. How are you, my dear man?

James Boyle (00:55)
Good, good. You know, we’re busy over here at plan first wealth, but all good things. How about you?

Richard Taylor
(01:02)
Yeah, no, we’re always busy. We’re always busy. We had a good planning meeting with someone this morning. My favorite kind of meetings where you get into the you know all the technical stuff that we spend a lot of time talking about super important but it’s the actual building and then and then presenting back to someone’s plan to them but then really that it’s the scenario part you know where you start modeling out like what if we do this what what if that how does levers we talk about levers right pulling what levers so we were we were we were pulling some levers this morning which I always enjoy.

James Boyle
(01:25)
Mm -hmm. What was the big one that came up this morning?

Richard Taylor
(01:39)
Is going to be a choice between working a little bit longer or doing some sort of consultancy. All right, down tools completely. Yeah, down tools completely a bit early, but you know, you might have to make some lifestyle adjustments or working a bit longer or, you know, some sort of to keep your toe in the water consultancy.

James Boyle
(01:51)
That’s an exciting one. And a not uncommon scenario, I would say. People we work with are at the height of their careers oftentimes and have a lot of skills that they can help transfer to other businesses.

Richard Taylor
(02:07)
Yeah. It doesn’t have we’re jumping the gun here obviously because that’s what we do, but it doesn’t have to be all or nothing and You know people It’s corporate life is pretty intense and pretty draining pretty exhausting and in your mid to late 50s You can just get completely fed up and overwhelmed with that But it doesn’t have to be It doesn’t have to be from that to.

James Boyle
(02:21)
Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(02:44)
Nothing there is often you’ve got a wealth of experience and knowledge and people a lot of people willing to pay for that Are you do what you do tapping your mouse? What you doing? You someone’s tapping them, huh?

James Boyle
(02:45)
Mm -hmm. Could be. I’m wondering if it’s this new arm I have for the mic.

Richard Taylor
(03:04)
I’m hearing a mouse. Right, James, what’s on our agenda today? So the usual format, we’ll look at the last month, although it’s only, we recorded this a bit early because of the bank holiday weekend coming up. So we’ll look at the last, May thus far, then we’ll dive into our technical corner, take a quick look at some reporting funds versus non -reporting funds, and then we’ll have our open mic session and then we’ll wrap up. So, May. What have you got to say about me? So far.

James Boyle
(03:39)
So far, it’s been good. It’s a nice recovery from the wobble in April, which if you listened to our last episode, we waffled on about. If we’ll have some stats here, I think May was down. And again, we’re using S &P 500 as a shorthand for the US market, but down 4 .6 % on the month somewhere on there. April, April, sorry, yep, yep. Month to date, and we’re recording this again a bit early in the month, but up 5 .7%..

Richard Taylor
(03:58)
That was April, was it? 4 .6%, yeah.

James Boyle
(04:09)
Something there.

Richard Taylor
(04:10)
Wow, the bounce backs, they mirror, they’re often much deeper than the downward trajectory. Anyone who panicked out in April thinking the fantastic six months we had at that point was coming to an end, and it will have happened to lots of people, they’ll now be sat there regretting that decision, and for what?

James Boyle
(04:40)
And it happens more often than you think, tragically. I mean, people come to us and say, there’s been this wobble. I’m worried. I’m not going to invest. I’m going to look at bonds now. And it’s just trying to get across the message of staying invested. Stick to your investment plan that we all know you have. You’re listening to this. You have a plan in place, I’m sure.

Richard Taylor
(04:43)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so what happened we had inflation print came in 3 .4 percent So in April right there was a wobble inflation came in a little a little bit higher than expected It wasn’t it’s not a linear line down which Why do we expect it to be a linear line down? But anyway, it came in a little bit hotter than expected and everyone.

James Boyle
(05:12)
Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(05:23)
We had a bit of a meltdown. Then we’ve had corporate earnings have continued to be on fire in May. Inflation came in 3 .4 % so, yeah, around expectations heading back down again. Everyone calmed down and the market reacted accordingly. I mean, it’s remarkably resilient but we’re in a bull market.

James Boyle
(05:49)
There’s always this narrative too and yeah, big time.

Richard Taylor
(05:52)
Simple as that, we are in a bull market and you just don’t want to miss it, you don’t want to sit this out.

James Boyle
(06:03)
We were talking last time, if I remember correctly, about the six month run we had, right? Since October of 2023, S &P got something like 20%. When you look at actually the bottom of that previous bear market, right? 2022, October, we’re up something close to 50 % from then in 18 months. So imagine all the headlines. Every analyst on the street calling for a recession, I was just reading something this morning. Goldman Sachs had it at 60 % confidence level that we were heading into a steep and severe recession, quarter one of 23. Clearly that never happened. If you had sat out that rally, that has the potential one wrong mistake there and then timing it wrong, right? The dangers of timing could derail what would be an otherwise successful portfolio or time or plan, everything else.

Richard Taylor
(06:55)
Permanently. I mean we talk about this in terms of no plan B. You can do the right thing for 40 years You can enter a time and with sufficient funds Everything be a hunky -dory and you make one mistake like that you panic out in September October 2022 during what was a brutal year? It was brutal, but it was uniquely brutal as well. There’s always something unique about each one. They’re all the same and they’re all different. This time it was stocks and bonds crashing together. It was absolutely horrible. We were right in the thick of it. And inflation, sorry. I was convinced, convinced that recession was coming. Knew not to do anything about it, knew not to tell our clients anything about it, but was convinced, as was the rest of the world. And you cash out on the way down, because bear in mind, people don’t cash out at the top, they cash out on the way down. So you cash out on the way down, wait for it to recover, you miss the 50 % that James is referring to, and you can terminally, terminally derail your…

James Boyle
(07:49)
Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(08:02)
Investment slash financial slash life plan and You know if you’re not working. There’s no plan B. There’s no recovery It’s tragic. It’s a tragedy. This is not hyperbole that is a personal tragedy.

James Boyle
(08:16)
People forget you have to time it right twice too, right? There’s two decisions there. There’s either going to cash on the way down, which is, you know, like we said, tragic and couldn’t be terminal. And then when you decide to get back in, how are you making that decision? Or do you look back and say, that was purely decision based on emotion and irrationality. And I made a mistake and now 48 % higher 18 months later, I’ve realized that. I’ve severely hampered my portfolio’s ability to sustain my lifestyle in retirement.

Richard Taylor
(08:48)
Yeah, yeah, it’s one of the one of the biggest frustrations is it doesn’t happen with our clients that we talked to because that’s part of our role is making sure that this doesn’t happen and continue providing support. It’s not even about investment advice. It’s just about emotional support. But it’s happened to all of us. We’ve seen it. It’s ugly. It’s a it’s it’s it’s a tragedy. It’s a tragedy.

James Boyle
(09:16)
Have you found sentiment moving the other direction? And by that, I mean people wanting to get cash on the sidelines invested now because they’re seeing headlines. We’re at all time highs and we’ve had this run up over the last six or seven months.

Richard Taylor
(09:31)
No, I’m not because I think everyone’s getting lulled by 5 % cash in and although most educated people realise that deep down you don’t build long term wealth by having it in cash. It’s just…

James Boyle
(09:39)
Mmm.

Richard Taylor
(09:51)
That’s not, you can’t do it in cash, it’s just impossible. That’s not the function of cash. But just, and maybe it’s after having zero percent interest rates for so long, just having that quote unquote guaranteed five percent accessible to them means I think a lot of people can just tune out the opportunity, the reality that’s all around them.

James Boyle
(10:12)
Yep, it’s the siren call of, well this is safe and it’s in my savings account. Not to say that it doesn’t have a place and a plan, but very often we’re meeting with new people each week who have cash sitting aside and you ask the first question, what’s the goal for this cash? Is it set aside or something? And too often the answer is, I don’t know.

Richard Taylor
(10:34)
No, I’ll tell you what the urgency is gone now. Now. I’m thinking about it. It’s people I’m just thinking about some meetings I’ve had recently and the class said no, you know, I know I got too much cash there Three four years ago and interest rates were 0 % I think that’d have been yep. Let’s let’s get that to work. Whereas now it’s the it’s the urgency is gone Yeah, they know they know it needs to be invested because they’ve got other investors with us and they’re flying they know but It’s getting 5 %.

James Boyle
(10:37)
Yeah. Good point. Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(11:04)
It’s just nice and easy. Anyway, what can you do? I keep talking about it, but anyway, we’re in a bull market. Inflation’s coming down, it’s the last mile now. This was always going to be stubborn. It’s never going to be linear. American companies are thriving. I mean, they are. They really are. This economy is so resilient.

James Boyle
(11:06)
It’s a safety blanket, which again, yeah, it could fit into a plan.

Richard Taylor
(11:33)
Yeah, it’s…

James Boyle
(11:36)
It’s amazing. I mean, we keep ringing the bell, but you just think back to all the predictions that were made, the doom saying and again, not to say that we couldn’t see a downturn here later in the year or next year or who knows what it looks like and the severity and the timeline of it, but to base your investment plan around current events, to not have a plan in place that looks at the long term that sees past temporary downturns. Using that word terminal, it’s true. It’s.

Richard Taylor
(12:01)
Hmm Yeah Hmm Yeah, sure we hesitate to touch this topic but We are in an election year and one of the contenders is Is on criminal trial right now which is frankly such an art, you know It’s it’s hard even to say it’s just weird even to say it, isn’t it?

James Boyle
(12:06)
The best way to put it. Embarrassing I could say over the Americans is embarrassing

Richard Taylor
(12:28)
It is embarrassing, yeah. Well, look, two points. First of all, At some point election hysteria will begin and people will start asking us about what if X gets in, what if Y gets in, what if X gets in and we’ll talk to a blue in the face about how it really doesn’t make no difference. If anything, you go back to the charts of the stock market when each president’s in power or each party’s in power and the market goes up more than it goes down. That is the same for every president. I do actually think contrary to the popular narrative the democratic years have actually done better not what you’d think have done the stock markets have performed better overall from the democratic years but either way it does not matter the market goes up more than it goes down that is the same whether Trump gets in that is gonna be the same whether Biden gets in I gotta it’s gonna be fascinating to see though if he gets convicted in this criminal trial I mean.

James Boyle
(13:32)
It’s going to be more of a circus than we’re already seeing, I’m sure.

Richard Taylor (13:35)
It’s such a circus. I mean, I mean, I mean, he seems to me to be as guilty as Sinna. I don’t know if he’ll get convicted, but if he does, and like, what if he… Love him or hate him, there’s been a lot thrown at him the last four years. If he gets in, there’s got to, and this is Trump, right, there’s going to be a level of… retribution to be meted out and that is what I don’t that is something I’m apprehensive about.

James Boyle
(14:08)
Impossible to predict too.

Richard Taylor
(14:11)
Impossible. It’s always impossible, but this one’s particularly impossible.

James Boyle
(14:15)
I was reading a great article today, which you might have seen the same one about myths investing in an election year too. One of them being, because people think panic, right? And too much volatility. There is a slight increase in volatility during an election year. But election years versus non, both are positive, slightly less return. I think non -election year, it’s something like 8%. And this was since. I want to say 1980, 7 .5 % in election year. So very small difference, but with some increased volatility. So if that’s something that makes you nervous, maybe you do go to your advisor and talk about your risk tolerance or why you’re invested the way you are and how does it fit into the plan? You have the great, and I’m going to mess with the wording here, Richard, but you want to be proactive, not reactive. It’s better to prepare, not repair. So.

Richard Taylor
(15:10)
Better to… that’s the one. Yeah, better to prepare than to repair. No, it’s not even mine though, don’t worry. I saw that from Mitch Anthony.

James Boyle
(15:12)
I stole it, I stole your thunder. But the takeaway being that you don’t want to be making long -term decisions based on short -term information. That, again, not to keep ringing that bell of making terminal mistakes or trying to tie in the market, but that you want to be absolutely wary of and make sure you’re having a conversation with your advisor if that’s something in your head, if you’re thinking, I’m panicking, this is too much. I need to make a change. Don’t do that on a whim.

Richard Taylor
(15:45)
Right, well look, as we wrap up this section, I want to read out verbatim something from… We… We… We… or I subscribe to, newsletter it’s called Nick Murray interactive it has shaped so much of how I think this firm’s philosophy he’s an inspiration to so many so many advisors and as a result his philosophy has touched so many lives he says he says it’s far better than I ever could he says current events and the markets next zig or zag in response are the third rail of investing you touch them in terms of re -examining your long -term investment policy in response to or anticipation of them, you die. Current events are the third rail of investing. You touch them, you die. I just think that metaphor is fantastic. And then he goes on to say, what the financial planner slash wealth manager must remember is that all client inquiries about current events are invitations to tap dance on the third rail. In other words, he’s saying,

James Boyle
(16:36)
That’s such a great metaphor.

Richard Taylor
(16:48)
You know, long term investment plans invested in, the kind of stuff we invest in, the US stock market, et cetera, have never failed over the long term. The way they fail is because humans get… Humans diving humans mess them up right then themselves long -term Never failed, but humans mess them up and humans mess them up because they they make decisions They take action based on current events, and you do that you die. It’s the third rail and if we if we indulge Conversations if we don’t if we don’t Go on the front so to speak with tap dancing with clients on the third rail I think that is a well, I’m just gonna try and conjure that thought up next time I get that inquiry just…

James Boyle
(17:32)
It’s almost too, it’s such a great metaphor and you could start to pile on and stretch it beyond reason, but it’s almost more insidious in that it’s a third rail that becomes magnetic, right? It’s tempting to touch on these things. It’s human nature wants to touch those third rails. So it’s almost even worse than it just existing and you’re dancing over it, it’s pulling it towards you.

Richard Taylor
(17:50)
Yeah, yeah. And the magnetism in this case is the news, the media, which bad news cells, they’re just screaming from the rooftops and it pulls you in and you know, cards on the table or being on it, it pulls us in as well. There is always a temptation to endorse these conversations, to put them on the logical, on the factual level. But that’s self -defeating.

James Boyle
(18:03)
Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(18:28)
We have to cut them off at the source. We have to just have to recognize what they are, which is even entertaining in good faith conversations about it, you’re tap dancing on the third rail and we need to get away from that. So I thought it was a wonderful, wonderful way of explaining it. Right. Should we move on?

James Boyle
(18:29)
Mm -hmm. Sure, we have a good topic, I think a relevant topic for our listeners today.

Richard Taylor
(18:51)
All right. Yeah, so just a reminder that next part we then do a technical series and what we do is we’ll spend a few minutes on our website we have. Excuse me. On our website we have a technical series and we have 12 topics on there, all relevant for Brits in America. And we go through each topic and we have blogs, videos, sometimes we have podcasts on there as well. And James and I have decided each time we do this, we’ll pick the corresponding topic from the technical series and we’ll just talk about it briefly. And maybe also be able to interlace it with people we’ve spoken to recently or cases that we’ve seen, that kind of thing, bring it to life. So this month we have reporting and non -reporting funds. So a little bit different for this one. This is more relevant to Brits who go back to the UK because the reporting and non -reporting fund regime is actually a UK tax regime or tax thing. And what it is…

James Boyle
(20:02)
One of the rare obstacles landmines thrown by HMRC. Usually we’re talking about the IRS in this part, so we’re balancing the scales here.

Richard Taylor
(20:09)
Yes. Very true. HMRC said that. Yeah. The IRS making it hard for experts at HMRC said, Les, we need to get in the game. So what it is is this is referring to non -UK offshore, so I’m going to call it offshore, but I mean non -UK, collective investment. So ETFs, mutual funds, that kind of thing that are not in the UK. And this is relevant to you as a UK resident, right? So let me just break, this is relevant for you. And where we see this is when people who have been in America, Brits have been in America for five, 10, 15, 20 years,

James Boyle
(20:20)
Hehehehe

Richard Taylor
(20:45)
20 years, you know, built up portfolio of assets here, I’ve got brokerage accounts in the US managed by US advisors, they return to the UK. Now they may have exit tax and other taxation problems, we’re going to cover that in a separate technical series, but they often go back with a portfolio of hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions, I’ve seen this millions in US funds. And they think everything is hunky dory. And it might be, but it’s probably not.

James Boyle
(21:11)
Mm -hmm. Super bog standard investments too for anyone listening. We’re not talking about any kind of exotic options, collars and things like that. These are bog standard, what you might term, collective investments. I mean, mutual funds, ETFs, things you’d find in any kind of brokerage account that you might have or be building up in the States.

Richard Taylor
(21:18)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. They’re just in the US, so the UK says they’re, by default, they’re an offshore non -reporting fund. Right, and if it’s an offshore non -reporting fund, this means that it doesn’t enjoy regular UK capital gains. So for everyone who’s listening, capital gains tax is much lower than income tax. It’s like… I can’t remember, 20, 28 % maybe, but it’s much lower than income tax. And normally, if you sell your holding in an ETF or a mutual fund, you are gonna pay capital gains tax on that gain. Great. If you are holding an offshore non -reporting fund, then you are gonna pay, then any gains from that are gonna get classed as offshore income gains, and they’re gonna be taxed at UK income tax rates. Which are gonna be 40, probably 45, wait, 20, 40, 45, but the people we’re talking to, 40 or more likely 45%. So all your gain, and like, if you’ve held these positions for years, and you’ve got substantial gains, you move back to the UK, you sell them in the future, they’re all going to be subject to capital gain, sorry, offshore income gains at 40 or 45%. That could be a brutal hit.

James Boyle
(22:50)
Huge hit, huge hit, especially if you’re not, if you’re unaware of it certainly, or if you haven’t planned for it, or mitigated it prior to moving back. You lose in one fell swoop the benefits of the lower capital gains taxation in the UK.

Richard Taylor
(23:07)
Yeah. We aren’t getting into technicals too much. This is just because… You you get two sorts of return from from ETS mutual funds you get dividends and you get capital gains, right? Dividends tax is income or dividend tax and gain to tax again So so and the dividends attacks at a higher rate usually but when when a fund is offshore the UK doesn’t know what income has been distributed No one’s reporting back to it. So it doesn’t know if you’re getting doesn’t know if you’re reporting this income as it comes through So so they just to avoid them Maybe missing out on tax revenue They’re just you’re an offshore non -reporting fund and you get walloped everything gets walloped as as as UK income tax Now they have created this offshore reporting fund regime and allow funds, not the investor, it’s a fund level, and they can register with HMRC, they can get reporting fund status, and then they will report back to HMRC on the income or the dividends, and they’ll also tell you, and you have to report them. But this just means that when you do get capital gains, you’re able to get taxed capital gains rates. So it’s super important, it’s an absolute no -brainer.

James Boyle
(24:17)
Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(24:20)
Actually lots of reporting funds in the US there’s a list I think it’s on HMRC’s website where you can get a list of all the reporting funds and very helpfully Vanguard has loads so it’s once you know about this this is I think this is our next point once you know about this regime it’s actually really easy to to avoid the negative impact what we see though is people have no idea

James Boyle
(24:24)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(24:48)
People will move back to the UK with big portfolios with big gains and Then they will suffer Tax in the UK a much much higher rate and it would have been totally avoided. They know about this

James Boyle
(25:01)
Sleepwalking into it, which, you know, through no fault of an investor’s own, right? I mean, a lot of these things are complex and sometimes unfair in the way they’re structured or worded, but part of this podcast, part of this platform is we want to make people aware of these issues before it becomes something that lands on their desk and is a huge hit to their portfolio that they had not anticipated at all. You alluded Richard to exit tax earlier, something we’ll cover in much more detail in a future episode, something again that’s in the technical series. But we talked about PFIX last episode, last time I was on. These are all things that with proper prior planning, with the right expertise and team in place, you can mitigate, you can navigate, you can manage around them and make sure that your plan is still successful. It’s not being aware or not taking the right steps to manage it. that you really get stuck, that these landmines can blow up on you.

Richard Taylor
(26:02)
Yeah, I mean, let’s just bring this life a little bit. You and I are talking to someone right now, and this is ongoing, so we don’t know all the details. But speaking to someone who’s been here for a long time with one of the big White Houses, I won’t mention the name, and they’re happy, the big White Houses, who are managing their multi -million dollar portfolio. However, They’ve got these, this is a separate problem, but they’ve got these neglected UK pension assets that have just been sat there for the last 15 years. That’s another topic for another day, but they’ve just sat there for 15 years. That’s a waste in my opinion. But this person is also thinking of relocating back to the UK. And none of these issues have been addressed. There’s been no talk about going back as a US citizen. There’s been no talk about the portfolio that they’re in and that they’re not. There’s been no talk about this reporting non -reporting fund because no one’s aware of it. And if this person had not met us, they would have gone back and this would have been a problem they would have to deal with.

James Boyle
(27:08)
Mm -hmm. It’s very common, right? We always say there are very good US -based advisors working with US clients. But if you asked, we call it the tumbleweed moment. I used to be one, right? Five years ago, if you asked me about US -based financial planning questions, I would be able to answer them. If you asked me about reporting versus non -reporting funds, I would look like you had two heads. So again, part of this is trying to get the message out that if you are an expat in the States, There are complications that you need to be sure you’re aware of and managing and you need to make sure you know where to get those answers.

Richard Taylor
(28:01)
Yeah, what James was saying then is a tumbleweed moment. So you sit down, you’re talking to your US financial advisor or your tax advisor and you bring up, I’ve got these various UK pensions and ICES in the UK, how should they be treated? And everything goes quiet and a tumbleweed rolls through the picture and the financial advisor who’s busy trying to sell you on to their service just wants it to go away and it goes away and they get back to what they were talking about and 15 years later in this case, those assets are still sat.

James Boyle
(28:08)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(28:31)
There. They’ve still, there’s probably some underreporting going on. Yeah, so again, different topic for a different day. And they’ve, you know, the very best have been neglected. And you know, what’s the opportunity cost there is so frustrating to us. But anyway, ranto.

James Boyle
(28:49)
And being proactive. I mean, you know, we could talk about this till we’re blue in the face, but never is there a situation like this where it has helped someone to delay making a decision or taking action. The more runway you have, the more time you have, the better able and better positioned you are to address and manage these things.

Richard Taylor
(29:06)
Yeah. Otherwise, you know what will happen? This is what we see every single week. People come to us in their late 50s, have been here for 20 years, and they’ve got to a point where they have to deal with it because they’ve got their eye firmly on retirement. They’re going to start to draw down on all their assets, and at that point, they have to deal with this. And then we deal with it. And we often think to ourselves, like, If only you’d done this 10 years ago, there could be an extra 100, 200, I don’t know, whatever it could be. But there could be more money in this pot. It could be doing better in dollars, whatever it might be. And we could have dealt with it 10 years ago or five years ago or whatever. But it’s how do we create that urgency in people? Because it’s just it’s such a pain in the butt as well to deal with all this stuff. It really is. And that just means that people put it off indefinitely. And yeah, if we can if we can spread the word, if we can help create some. We’re not creating urgency of this, but we’re creating awareness on the benefits of dealing with that stuff. And.

James Boyle
(29:57)
Mm -hmm. Awareness, yep.

Richard Taylor
(30:14)
Maybe we can help people avoid some of the pitfalls and knowledge.

James Boyle
(30:18)
There’s that saying from an investing perspective, right? The best time to start investing was 20 years ago, second best time is today. Same thing applies to all these issues we’ll bring up now and in the future from our technical series.

Richard Taylor
(30:31)
Indeedy, indeedy. All right, anything else to add?

James Boyle
(30:36)
No, just you mentioned it, but if you go on planfirstwealth .com, look under the resources tab, there is a technical series there. We go into much greater detail than we will be able to on these pockets. This is designed to be a quick summary, but if you have any questions, find us on the technical series and reach out to us. We’re happy to chat.

Richard Taylor
(30:52)
Yeah, there are 12 topics on there. And if you’re a Brit in America, they all apply to you. All of them. From UK pensions, US retirement accounts, back paying national insurance, social security, when for elimination provision, US citizenship, exit, if you know exit, estate planning, it’s all for you. So head on over there. Right, open mic. So,

James Boyle
(31:11)
Yep.

Richard Taylor
(31:21)
Was that I just made but where we’re going with this is a couple of weeks ago I was reading the newspaper on my phone obviously and an article popped up that I shared with James and I thought we would talk about it today so it’s from the New York Times and it’s called these couples survived a lot then retirement came and it’s a long quite interesting article from the New York Times Magazine, shall I say New York Times Magazine, and it’s all about how these couples were together, some of them for a long time, then they retired and started driving each other insane. There’s a happy ending for all these stories, I don’t think any of them end up in divorce, it’s a couple of weeks since I read it, but I sent it to James and said, we should talk about this in our next podcast, so here we are. And.

James Boyle
(32:00)
Mm -hmm. It’s one of the things that, and I don’t mean to steal your thunder here, Richard, if this is where you’re gonna go with it, but we talk about the difference psychologically, emotionally, you know, remove the math, remove the calculations, remove the investments. There is such a difference going from working a nine to five, you’re earning an income, you have a paycheck coming in, you’re in your accumulation phase, you’re saving to that transition into retirement when you don’t have that structure in place, you don’t have the routine in place, you’re not earning.

Richard Taylor
(32:15)
Please.

James Boyle
(32:40)
Paycheck or having a paycheck coming in that has vast impacts on your personal relationships, on your self -esteem, on your self -worth, on how you spend your time, how you go about your days, your well -being. And it’s something that people don’t really talk about. And they get into this in the article. Retirement very often is this goal line, right? It’s I got to get to there and this is what I’m working towards. This is what my effort’s going towards. Beyond it is this fog. We don’t even bother to think about it. We think I’ve got to get to this guideline and then I’m good. And the reality is much different. You really do have to think about what that next step looks like.

Richard Taylor
(33:12)
Mm -hmm. There’s a void you step into a void and Everything changes and some of it’s for the better and some of it is absolutely for the worse That’s why we anyone who spent any time on our website or spent time talking to us We will talk nine times out of ten. We’ll talk about people who are thinking about what next and we mean retirement but

James Boyle
(33:24)
Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(33:44)
Yeah, I even wanted to weave it into the way I use language I want I want I don’t want people to be thinking about this like line the sand where one day they’re working next day They’re not I want them to be thinking about what they’re retiring to and I also I Think I worry not worries. Maybe the wrong word, but my gut how you’ve done this in the US alone for ten years is that? We can talk about this till we’re blue in the face. The New York Times magazine can write articles about this till they’re blue in the face. I think it’s one of those things that has to be experienced. I think I could have this conversation with people, they’re like, yeah, yeah, I can say, listen, everything’s gonna change. Your self -worth’s gonna take a hit. Because a lot of people’s identity’s tied up in work. Your relationships, your money and your wealth’s gonna change. People often get that. I’ll talk about it, you spent 40 years, excuse me, you spent 40 years working and earning an income and you save over here and that pot of money over there goes up it goes down you don’t like when it goes down you like when it goes up but your income pays your bills right when that income source is turned off and that pot of money you’ve been working on for 40 years becomes your lifeline You’re everything. You feel everything so much more and you are so much more so much more susceptible to making a bad decision and you just at risk of it ruining your day -to -day existence honestly because it just you feel it and people get that intellectually, but I don’t think they truly get They don’t truly grasp it until they experience it. And this is when people I think are at most danger of making a big mistake. So we’re obviously focused on the money side of it making a big mistake or not making a big mistake. But the flip side to this is relationships can take a hit. You…

James Boyle
(35:30)
Mm -hmm. We see this all the time where one person in the couple, and I think this oftentimes arises naturally. It wasn’t any kind of concerted effort or decision made, but one member of the couple is sort of the primary financial management, so to speak, or was for a long time, and maybe the other spouse has no real… Grasp on where the money is or what the plan is and how it’s going to be deployed in retirement and beyond. It’s communication, which is a big part of what we do obviously, but is so key and like you say, is just missing a lot of times. And whether that’s underestimating the cost of it or the impact of it, it’s hard to say. It’s such a personal conversation too, right? Which, you know, we’re… Very lucky and grateful to be working with the clients that we work with every day and have seen and had these conversations day in and day out. Very personal and can be different for everyone as far as what that next step looks like, what is the impact it has on your day to day or your self worth, what is that ideal lifestyle that we’re working towards. It’s tough, these are big questions.

Richard Taylor
(36:46)
What are you going to do? Yeah, what are you going to do? You need something to retire to. I think one of my clients who did it best, he was an engineer at Rolls Royce for many years, so he’s in the DC area, he became a docent and he loves it. He’s out of the house. I think it’s important for everyone that he’s out of the house for a long period of time. That’s perfect.

James Boyle
(37:02)
Nice. You know, I don’t know if this is because we work with expats. One of the things that’s so exciting about if I can say what we do at Plant First Wealth is that we work with adventurous, courageous. Is that too strong? You know what I’m driving at here? People who have interests and passions beyond work. And we can see as we’re approaching that sort of pre -retirement transition phase, you can sense the excitement.

Richard Taylor
(37:24)
Yeah, I think, no, no, listen, I fully endorse that. Yeah, yeah.

James Boyle
(37:39)
And the passion and I can’t wait, this is what I’m going, whether it’s a docent or I’m sailing or I’m traveling, slow traveling for a month at a time in six different months, worldwide cruises, I mean, it’s really fun, quite frankly, to have those conversations, to build out those plans that incorporate those kinds of things. And that’s what you want. That’s what you want to be working towards.

Richard Taylor
(38:01)
Yeah. Right, our client, I don’t mean to be disparaging of people who aren’t expats, but our clients don’t just settle down to garden for 30 years. Now we do have one client who is a world -class gardener, I think. I think they have had weddings and stuff at their house, but he also does loads of other stuff. And that tells you as well, we have one gardener, but I think he was featured in a magazine, right? So it’s not just like…

James Boyle
(38:14)
Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(38:32)
Planting a few tulips and running out. That’s as far as my gardening knowledge goes. But we do have the, just the people who have come over here and made a success of it are bold, courageous, and oftentimes fun people. And yeah, they need to channel that into, certainly in the early years, having a…

James Boyle
(38:39)
You’re ahead of me then, because… Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(39:00)
Activity filled mentally as well as physically retirement and they need to Be aware you need to be con you know, you don’t know how it’s going to hit you but you need to be cognizant that Your relationship your money and your wealth is going to change and that makes you more susceptible to something going awry.

James Boyle
(39:25)
They always say, I’m sure you’ve seen these studies that are like most stressful events across sort of a typical lifespan. And retirement is always top three, four, five, right? Because it is, to your point earlier, so wrapped up in people’s identities and so forth, and just day to day, time spent, right? So we would encourage anyone listening, if you’re doing this already, great. If not, think about it. Building out what that looks like.

Richard Taylor
(39:34)
Yeah, moving it, moving. You know what was, you know from that article I’m referring to, what was, how many of the men were like uber successful in business and then basically succumb to, even if it was undiagnosed and just depression.

James Boyle
(40:09)
Yeah? absolutely.

Richard Taylor
(40:11)
These are high performing, high achieving, I hate this term, but I guess alpha males, right, who had succeeded and conquered the workplace. I don’t like the way I’m sounding here, but you know what I’m talking about. And then in retirement just were adrift and it really messed their mental state.

James Boyle
(40:25)
I hear what you’re saying, yeah. Yep. And it’s, it’s such a drastic, that kind of thing. So if you read the article of your listening, you’ll see that there’s to Richard’s point, high performer performing individual, probably spending many hours a day at the top of their craft. A lot of times, drastic shift, brake pedal slammed down to having nothing to do. I think they literally say this in the article, but sit on the couch and scroll Instagram. Now, hopefully that’s an extreme example, right? But it, it does happen.

Richard Taylor
(41:01)
Yeah.

James Boyle
(41:05)
And that’s a pretty massive shift if you’re not prepared for it, certainly.

Richard Taylor
(41:10)
We have I have a current client one of my best favorite clients I Hope he doesn’t mind me talking about him. I’m not gonna name him but he Yes, okay, one of my some What yeah one of my so what I’ve got a great long -standing client who? Who I have a fantastic relationship with and I often think about this with him because he is a really successful

James Boyle
(41:18)
We don’t rank them. That might have been out of point there.

Richard Taylor
(41:40)
Indie Man sales trainer and he keeps talking about retiring. But he keeps getting offered work and he keeps putting his prices up and he keeps getting offered more work and he takes it and he’s walking a line between, I think he’s walking between, he still enjoys it and he’s getting paid well for it, he’s in demand and that always feels nice but he wants to retire but I don’t, if he does fully retire I don’t know how much, I don’t know what, there’s a balance for him and I think he’s getting it right right now and I think we’re supporting him because he knows he can walk away, he knows he’s financially independent. We’ve done all the maths, we’ve done all the numbers, done the projections, he’s all good. He’s doing this purely for him and he doesn’t always necessarily enjoy it. I think it’s more the fact that he’s in demand. You know, the fact that he’s got the skills to offer and people are paying very good money for his skills.

James Boyle
(42:31)
Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(42:35)
There’s something to that. It’s just that there is a fine line because a lot of it can involve a lot of travel for him. So he’s trying to cut that part of it out. And that’s what financial independence does for you. It allows you to make those calls, to say no to stuff and only do the stuff that you really want to.

James Boyle
(42:53)
That’s such a key point that we’ve sort of danced around, but options, having the optionality to determine. And it’s a day -to -day thing, right? It’s not binary. I have to work five more years or retire in full. Maybe it’s taking fewer contracts or upping your rates. Having that financial independence in place, knowing that your plan is successful and stable and you’re comfortable with what that next step looks like, you’re in a position of strength there, right? Then you can really tailor and design. what your life looks like. That’s such a key distinction.

Richard Taylor
(43:29)
All right, I’ll leave it there. Any questions, Your Honor?

James Boyle
(43:31)
Yeah. Should we say, I know you mentioned the title, right? These couples survived a lot, then came retirement just to just to give credit to the writer, Susan Dominus, New York Times. Check it out as a really good read.

Richard Taylor
(43:47)
May the 5th, 2024, yeah, it was good. Alrighty, okay, so show and tell. You go, what do you got to show and tell us this time, James? What are you consuming?

James Boyle
(43:59)
Show and tell. I’m pushing for pick and mix, but I don’t know if that’s me putting the… My fiance and I revisited a movie from the BBC, I think had produced it a couple years back. I’ve just found out there’s a sequel mini -series, which is what caused us to revisit it. The movie’s called Boiling Point. Have you heard of it?

Richard Taylor
(44:06)
I can’t remember what you’re talking about. I’m just making this up as I go along.

James Boyle
(44:29)
It’s with the actor Stephen Graham. He’s been in a bunch of things. Boardwalk Empire, he played Al Capone. I think he was in Peaky Blinders for a while, if anyone’s watched that.

Richard Taylor
(44:40)
Yeah, I know him. Yeah, yeah, I know who you mean. Yeah, yeah.

James Boyle
(44:43)
It’s set in a kitchen and it’s designed so the movie they it’s a tight like 90 minute thrill. I think you can stream it on Amazon if you’re if you’re in the States. All designed to look like one take so it’s one night in an extremely hectic stressful kitchen. He’s the head chef and it’s all these problems that come up. I have this fascination with I have a real respect for anyone who works in the service economy and in kitchens. I think it’s incredible the way they have to balance. And in a really high stress situation with professionalism and competence. The movie is fantastic. I found out recently that they created this sequel mini series. I think the BBC produced it where it’s four or five episodes that’s streaming on Netflix in the States goes more into detail of all the different characters, what was kind of the motivations, their backstories, really fascinating. Anyone who’s interested in kind of kitchen environment, movies or film, check it out. It reminds me a bit of The Bear, which I know is huge now.

Richard Taylor
(45:49)
Well, I was literally about to jump in and say, this sounds like the British version of the bear.

James Boyle
(45:53)
It kind of, I would say it’s not dissimilar. If you’re a fan of the bear, you would like Boiling Point. Less funny, less jocular, I would say. A bit more dramatic and intense.

Richard Taylor
(46:05)
Okay, well I think The Bear is unbelievably good TV. For anyone who’s worked in hospitality, I was a barman and a waiter in a restaurant and you just, the pressure, my god, the pressure in a kitchen is overwhelming. Like, I like you, I have…

James Boyle
(46:11)
Love it. Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(46:25)
I mean a lot of them, shafts handled it with shouting and drinking but it’s unbelievably hard I don’t know how they do it frankly there’s a, in the bear in the first season there’s this, have you seen the bear? in the first season when the takeout machine malfunctions and all the orders come through in one go I finished that episode and I was stressed

James Boyle
(46:39)
Yes, I love it, yeah. Yes, it is. Boiling Point is the movie is that episode, but 90 minutes long, essentially. Yeah, the bear, the bear. I’m not a big, I don’t know if you’re a big like rewatcher, like revisit things occasionally. I’ll do it.

Richard Taylor
(46:58)
Yeah. Can some things, not usually, but some things yes. I mean, I saw it on the weekend about this. We just finished The Sopranos, as I told you about, I’ve probably seen The Sopranos four, maybe five times. The one we’ve seen more than anything is Band of Brothers.

James Boyle
(47:16)
Mm.

Richard Taylor
(47:25)
I’ve probably seen Band of Brothers at least 10 times maybe more. It’s just gone, it’s been out for 20 years and I’ve watched it more than every other year. So at least 10 times. Every time I pick up something new.

James Boyle
(47:25)
Excellent. It’s a real mark of quality. If you can watch something multiple times and you get something new out of it each watch, that to me is, and that’s a high bar, but Bayer is one that I would do that with. And I probably will when the new season comes out. Succession, yep.

Richard Taylor
(47:47)
I’m yes, it’s look session. I’m gonna go probably watching session Well seeing as we’ve gone there I’m gonna tell everyone what I told this person on Saturday about band of brothers Which is rewatch it number one if you’ve not seen if you only seen it once or not seen it or just just go and watch it right now but if you do for the 20 year anniversary, they released a podcast and Have you heard of men in blazers?

James Boyle
(48:02)
Mm -hmm. No.

Richard Taylor
(48:14)
It’s a podcast in America hosted by two British guys about soccer. I don’t listen to it, but I’m aware of it and one of the guys Who is a massive Band of Brothers fan and he hosts this Band of Brothers podcast. So for each episode They have this was 10 episodes for this and there’s 10 podcasts and each podcast Episode is about that episode and he has on an actor or director or a writer culminating right at the end with What’s his name the guy from Billy?

James Boyle
(48:39)
That’s cool. Tom Hanks or?

Richard Taylor
(48:44)
Tom Hanks is on it at one point, yeah. Although Tom Hanks was a producer, he’s not in it, Tom Hanks is a producer. But Damien Lewis, he has Damien Lewis in it, he has Nixon in it, who’s the guy from Office or whatever. And he’s really great, yeah. And it’s just a fantastic, fantastic addition to…

James Boyle
(48:46)
Nice. Yep. He’s great that guy. I gotta listen to that.

Richard Taylor
(49:07)
To watching the show and then listening to the podcast and you learn some great stuff. You learn some great stuff about the characters, you learn some great stuff about the actors, you learn some great stuff about the creative process. Some things that absolutely blew my mind that I learned. So I don’t know how much you remember of it, but there’s two or three episodes are set in the Battle of Bulge, which was in winter in Europe and it’s ice cold, it’s snow everywhere. And for two episodes, these men are freezing.

James Boyle
(49:28)
Mm -hmm.

Richard Taylor
(49:37)
I mean they are, there’s like steam going out, you know, the breath, they look so cold and they’re just freezing, they’ve all got frostbite, you know, they’re breaking ice, I mean it just looks so cold. And I learned this was shot inside in summer in England. They’re in this big hangar, so all the snow is fake, all the breath is digitally added afterwards. Is it?

James Boyle
(50:02)
I was going to, so it’s all digital. That’s pretty impressive because it’s.

Richard Taylor
(50:05)
It gave it gave a whole it gave me gave me a whole new appreciation for their acting because I’m Convinced they’re in winter and they’re freezing and they’re not it’s they’re inside and they are cooking Couldn’t believe it

James Boyle
(50:10)
Yeah. Wow, I don’t understand any of that. I don’t understand how they accomplish half of these things, but when you learn a fact like that, it’s just astounding how they could manage. Did you watch, if I’m not mistaken, because I think Tom Hanks and Spielberg produced that, then they made a new one recently that was the Air Force or?

Richard Taylor
(50:26)
Yeah. I think so, yeah, yeah. I think it’s called Pacific. It wasn’t recently, it was after.

James Boyle
(50:43)
This is even after Pacific. I think this was even more recent. There was like.

Richard Taylor
(50:46)
Now you’re saying it, so I mean, has it actually come out yet? We’re just talking about it.

James Boyle
(50:50)
I haven’t watched it. I think it’s come out now. I don’t know if it’s finished. But yeah, I’d be curious to see how that one holds up. It’d be hard to top Band of Brothers. No, yeah, Pacific, I enjoy, but nowhere near the heights of, yeah, yeah.

Richard Taylor
(51:00)
Well Pacific didn’t. Not to the same level as Band of Brothers, but that whole story, the march through Europe, when they’re in Hitler’s, the eagle’s nest, Rehita’s garden, it’s just tea day landings. The Pacific theatre is interesting and terrible and all that stuff, but there’s just something about that European theatre of war that’s fascinating.

James Boyle
(51:13)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, incredible.

Richard Taylor
(51:35)
Right. Well, should we wrap up? Okay, well.

James Boyle
(51:43)
Yeah.

Richard Taylor
(51:45)
That’s another episode of From the Trenches with Richard and James under our belt. We will be back in June to give you our take on what’s happening in June and whatever else we want to talk about. As ever, you can find us online if you want us to cover anything. Get in touch, let us know, questions, queries, suggestions, we’re open to them.

James Boyle
(52:06)
Absolutely, don’t be shy and check out, we talked about the website, planfirstwealth.com. The resources tab has a ton of content of which this podcast is just a small sliver, so check it out folks.

Richard Taylor
(52:18)
All right, thank you, James.

James Boyle
(52:20)
Thanks, Rich. Talk to you soon.

Richard Taylor
(52:21)
See you then.